3 card support, opp doubles

[gambolero]

♠4 ♥AT2 ♦KQ32 ♣JT743

Partner opens 1♥ and is doubled.

3♥ is of course preemptive.

I was taught that 2NT (Jordan/Truscott) shows 4 card support.

How do you handle this hand?

[Vampyr]

Transfers are best, but lacking that start with 2♣. And on this particular hand transfers don't work that well, unless you will transfer to hearts with a hand this strong.

 

Some players redouble and then support with this sort of hand.

 

However, any of the above, not showing support immediately, is fraught with danger, since the opponents will bounce in spades and the auction is extremely likely to come back to you at an uncomfortably high level. I think that this is an emergency, and you should bid 2NT (I had a club in with my hearts, partner) or make a fit jump in clubs(I had a diamond in with my hearts).

[helene_t]

I don't like 2cl. Partner will be on lead against a spade contract so if I bid a suit it will be diamonds .

Redouble is the test book call but I prefer 2nt. Or transfers as Stephanie suggests

[Trinidad]

Agree with Helene, but ... my rule is no gadgets in the N/B forum (unless the OP offers them himself). So, I stick to the textbook: redouble and show the hearts later.

 

Rik

[Antrax]

Is 2♣ forcing here? I was hesitant to recommend it because as a N/B I was taught "all strong hands start with redouble" so 2♣ was encouraging but NF, 9-11 or so.

[kuhchung]

2C nf on 5 bad with 3 card heart support and a stiff spade?

 

Redouble is the textbook way to show a limit raise with 3 card support

[ggwhiz]

The problem with this hand is the stiff spade and the strong indication that they may be bid on your left.

 

That makes showing heart support right now important and I would choose 2nt but would redouble and support next if I didn't fear having to do it over 2 or 3 spades at my next turn. Bidding 2♣ on that suit and having one of those spade bids come back to you is leading with your chin.

 

No such thing as always in this game. My shape and points makes me worth 3 1/2 card heart support imo and if pard bids game I'm not unhappy. This might shut my lho up if they happen to have a really good spade fit (good sack or make) or allow partner to hammer them if they come in at the 3 level with a mediocre one.

[hrothgar]

I expect this answer to be fairly unpopular, but I'd bid 2♦

 

XX is right on strength, but denies a fit. Partner will be leaving in doubles with the wring hands

2NT misrepresents trump length in the other direction. Here, once again partner will take the wrong view

2♣ will work out dreadfully if partner is on lead versus a spade contract.

1NT is right on strength. We might survive if I get another bid, but it probably will be ugly if it floats.

 

I'm bidding 2D, intending to show delayed heart support.

I wish I had another heart, but I'll be much happier with this bid than any other if I am defending a spade contract.

 

(Note, I'm not worried about whether or not 2D is forcing because its not going to get passed)

[aguahombre]

Agree with Helene, but ... my rule is no gadgets in the N/B forum (unless the OP offers them himself). So, I stick to the textbook: redouble and show the hearts later.

Rik

The OP did offer 2NT, and since he did: The Jordan 2NT response after a double of pard's major can be used with an invitational raise (3+ support) or a G.F. raise which is balanced. Opener doesn't need to know which it is at the time, but it eliminates the need to include hands with support in the redouble mix. Redouble implies no fit is much more "standard", IMO, than Redouble might have a fit.

 

Any responding hand with a fit for opener needs to get that message across immediately when there has been a takeout double, before lefty jams up the auction. Even those (we) who do employ transfers should rethink ever using them with a fit for opener unless the transfer (one-under) shows that fit.

[Stephen Tu]

Redouble denies a 4+ fit. It's very standard to redouble with this sort of hand when not playing transfers. Partner will initially assume no fit, but know 3 cd support if you raise later. If the opps bounce to 4 spades, it's not ideal, but having concealed 3 cd fit is not as problematic as having concealed 4+. Also with only 3 cd fit it is somewhat less likely that the opps have a huge number of spades.

 

A natural 2/1 is absolutely non-forcing playing standard, and denies a fit much more emphatically than redouble does, so I can't really understand anyone recommending that. I'd much sooner bid 2nt than a NF 2/1!

[EricK]

However, any of the above, not showing support immediately, is fraught with danger, since the opponents will bounce in spades and the auction is extremely likely to come back to you at an uncomfortably high level.

I'm not convinced about this. LHO is likely to be quite (or very) weak, and most pairs (in my experience) play jump bids of ♠ as showing strength rather than as pre-emptive bids.

[Trinidad]

The OP did offer 2NT, and since he did: The Jordan 2NT response after a double of pard's major can be used with an invitational raise (3+ support) or a G.F. raise which is balanced. Opener doesn't need to know which it is at the time, but it eliminates the need to include hands with support in the redouble mix. Redouble implies no fit is much more "standard", IMO, than Redouble might have a fit.

 

Any responding hand with a fit for opener needs to get that message across immediately when there has been a takeout double, before lefty jams up the auction. Even those (we) who do employ transfers should rethink ever using them with a fit for opener unless the transfer (one-under) shows that fit.

"Redouble implies no fit" is indeed the standard treatment. This treatment was the basis for my reply.

 

The textbooks say that Jordan promises 4 card support. The OP clearly has read part of those textbooks, since he is aware that Jordan shows four card support. He just doesn't know what to do with a good hand with 3 card support. In the standard treatment, known as "redouble implies no fit", hands that are invitational or better with 3 card support use the redouble and show the support later. "Redouble implies no fit" does not mean "Redouble denies a fit".

 

Spoiler for those who want to be beyond the B/N level:

 

On this hand, you have a fair reason to deviate from the standard treatment. IMO, this reason is beyond the B/N level. You should first learn the standard treatment, before you can deviate from it. The reason why I might bid Jordan 2NT anyway is because of my high Offense to Defense Ratio (ODR). My hand has the same ODR as many 2434 hands. That makes this hand an exception to the rule. Should my partner go wrong because he expected a fourth trump, I will apologize.

 

 

Rik

[Trinidad]

A natural 2/1 is absolutely non-forcing playing standard, and denies a fit much more emphatically than redouble does, so I can't really understand anyone recommending that. I'd much sooner bid 2nt than a NF 2/1!

I couldn't agree more.

 

Rik

[monikrazy]

Given support redouble can help ops discover a (likely) spade fit, a jump to 4♥ may very well be our best choice.

[Stephen Tu]

Given support redouble can help ops discover a (likely) spade fit, a jump to 4♥ may very well be our best choice.

 

The takeout double already has informed his partner whether a spade fit exists, jumping to 4 hearts doesn't prevent the opps from discovering a fit. Jumping to 4h, which shows 2 more trumps and less in HCP, is more likely to provoke partner into bidding 5H when it is wrong over 4S.