Writing the score before the hand is finished

[ahydra]

It's certainly rather rude, but does writing the score (in one's scorecard) before the hand is finished constitute a claim? Is it an irregularity of some sort?

 

I had to endure this from my LHO in tonight's match, along with plenty of gloating, berating his partner over an overtrick (this was IMPs lol), detaching cards before his turn to play, and lots of unsolicited advice on how I should have played the hand better. Wonderful. Still, I thought of all these offences writing in the scorecard before the end of the hand is probably the worst since it conveys UI to his partner.

 

ahydra

[mycroft]

I've never seen that one, but it's surely a breach of something.

 

I have seen "make final call, write contract in scorecard" before. 1NT-p-3NT, fine; but a competitive auction less so...

[Vampyr]

I think that it must be a claim.

[Bbradley62]

Isn't he allowed to doodle in/on his scorecard all he wants?

[blackshoe]

It's a private score. Absent some pre-arranged method of communicating with his partner by writing on the scorecard before the hand is over, I don't think this is illegal per se. Nor is it a claim. If it's a claim, then so is thinking to yourself "I have N tricks". As the dry one says, though, it is rude, and therefore could be deemed a violation of Law 74A2. Good luck getting a favorable ruling on it though. B-)

[ahydra]

I was surprised by these answers, but can see the logic in them if the scorecard is private. Does it make a difference if a) the scorecard is effectively (one copy of) the official score, since this is a private match and/or b) his partner can read the scorecard? Both were the case here, and even if there wasn't any prearranged communication, writing something on the scorecard will attract partner's attention - if partner then sees a plus score, she knows there is (likely) a play to defeat the contract.

 

I guess using Bridgemates doing this is silly, but not totally bad since you can cancel the score out again. Using travellers it would obviously be a definite no-no because of the ability to see previous scores. To be honest if you think you know how many tricks are going to be taken, I say you should claim, since that what claiming is there for.

 

ahydra

[campboy]

I don't think it is a claim, on the grounds that he demonstrably did not intend to claim, but it surely isn't legal. You might interpret it as a violation of 74C3, C4 (in the case of a defender), or C6; it is certainly discourteous even though it is not specifically mentioned in 74B (it is similar to, and IMO ruder than, detaching a card before one's turn to play). Obviously there are UI issues if the player is defending.

[pran]

I don't think it is a claim, on the grounds that he demonstrably did not intend to claim, but it surely isn't legal. You might interpret it as a violation of 74C3, C4 (in the case of a defender), or C6; it is certainly discourteous even though it is not specifically mentioned in 74B (it is similar to, and IMO ruder than, detaching a card before one's turn to play). Obviously there are UI issues if the player is defending.

 

If a player writes down anything prematurely (for instance on his private scoresheet) I shall consider that a violation of:

Unless permitted by the Regulating Authority a player is not entitled during the auction and play periods to any aids to his memory, calculation or technique.

[barmar]

If a player writes down anything prematurely (for instance on his private scoresheet) I shall consider that a violation of:

"Buy milk". Is that a violation of 40C3a?

[Cyberyeti]

Another one I experienced similar to this, RHO bids, I pass slowly, LHO passes and starts writing the contract into his scorecard implicitly saying to my partner "you can't possibly bid after that pause". Partner having UNTd his 3 loser hand then did bid 4N causing ructions. Has LHO committed any offence ?

[aguahombre]

I really like Sven's stretch of "aids to memory". I think writing during the auction and/or play period sucks, with the exception of North doing his/her Bridgemate duties in spare moments.

[mycroft]

I must admit I would ask "am I boring you?", at least were it repeated. If this character is my partner, rather than an opponent, more so.

[gnasher]

If a player writes down anything prematurely (for instance on his private scoresheet) I shall consider that a violation of:

"Unless permitted by the Regulating Authority a player is not entitled during the auction and play periods to any aids to his memory, calculation or technique."

When you find someone using a mobile phone during the session, do you give them a revoke penalty?

 

We already have perfectly good laws to deal with this behaviour, without any need to pretend that the offender has done something that he hasn't:

- We determine whether it's a claim under Law 68. If it is, we deal with it under Laws 68-71.

- We determine whether UI was made available. If it was, we deal with it under Law 16.

- We determine whether it constituted communication. If it is, we deal with it under Law 73B.

- We determine whether it was a breach of the proprieties. If it was, we penalise the offender and adjust for any damage.

[gnasher]

I don't think it is a claim, on the grounds that he demonstrably did not intend to claim, but it surely isn't legal.

I don't think that the condition "unless he demonstrably did not intend to claim" is relevant. That appears to apply only to "when he shows his cards", and not to "when he suggests that play be curtailed".

 

I think it may be a claim, depending on his manner and intention.

 

I occasionally write down the score during the play, but not in a way that allows anyone else to see what I am doing. My objective in doing so is to save time. That's not a claim.

 

I've seen players write down the score ostentatiously, as a public prediction of the number of tricks they would score. That's a claim.

 

it is certainly discourteous even though it is not specifically mentioned in 74B

It doesn't have to be mentuoned in 74B. 74A1 makes all discourtesy illegal.

[pran]

If a player writes down anything prematurely (for instance on his private scoresheet) I shall consider that a violation of:

Unless permitted by the Regulating Authority a player is not entitled during the auction and play periods to any aids to his memory, calculation or technique.

 

When you find someone using a mobile phone during the session, do you give them a revoke penalty?

 

How did the idea of a revoke surface?

[gnasher]

How did the idea of a revoke surface?

It came from the same place as "aids to his memory, calculation or technique".

[campboy]

I don't think that the condition "unless he demonstrably did not intend to claim" is relevant. That appears to apply only to "when he shows his cards", and not to "when he suggests that play be curtailed".

Ah, yes, you're right. I didn't look at the punctuation carefully enough.

[pran]

How did the idea of a revoke surface?

It came from the same place as "aids to his memory, calculation or technique".

 

Nonsense.

 

If you write something down for the purpose of having the information available later then it certainly is an aid to your memory.

[campboy]

If you write something down for the purpose of having the information available later then it certainly is an aid to your memory.

The point is that it is only illegal to use the aid to memory during the auction and play period. So provided "later" is "after the hand" then there is no violation of this particular law. (This is the same reason it is legal to write the contract on your scorecard while waiting for the opening lead, so long as you don't refer to it during the play.)

[chrism]

On a related subject, I was asked a few years ago whether a player's habit of writing down the entire auction as well as the contract before the opening lead was illegal (in addition to irritating many of his opponents). I established that he never made reference to it during the hand, but then told him not to do it anyway, (1) because of the annoyance factor, but more specifically (2) because in my view the very process of recording the auction helped him commit it to memory and thus constituted an illicit aid to memory.

[aguahombre]

The point is that it is only illegal to use the aid to memory during the auction and play period. So provided "later" is "after the hand" then there is no violation of this particular law. (This is the same reason it is legal to write the contract on your scorecard while waiting for the opening lead, so long as you don't refer to it during the play.)

The point is that while waiting for the opening lead is neither the auction nor the play period, it is the clarification period; but writing the score before play has been completed (and during the play period) requires looking at the contract which has been written, and perhaps any other notes about the auction or opening lead. It is using an aid to memory, even though verbally asking what the contract is is o.k.

[pran]

On a related subject, I was asked a few years ago whether a player's habit of writing down the entire auction as well as the contract before the opening lead was illegal (in addition to irritating many of his opponents). I established that he never made reference to it during the hand, but then told him not to do it anyway, (1) because of the annoyance factor, but more specifically (2) because in my view the very process of recording the auction helped him commit it to memory and thus constituted an illicit aid to memory.

 

Thanks, spared me a comment.

[cherdano]

Nonsense.

 

If you write something down for the purpose of having the information available later then it certainly is an aid to your memory.

If I write down the score on my private scoresheet after the hand is finished, I do so with the only purpose of aiding my memory.

[campboy]

The point is that while waiting for the opening lead is neither the auction nor the play period, it is the clarification period; but writing the score before play has been completed (and during the play period) requires looking at the contract which has been written, and perhaps any other notes about the auction or opening lead. It is using an aid to memory, even though verbally asking what the contract is is o.k.

I carelessly missed out a letter in my previous post. What is illegal under law 40 is using to an aid to memory "during the auction and play periods". So it is forbidden during the whole of the auction period, of which the clarification period is a part.

[uday]

I routinely record my hand in my scorecard (in events that won't deliver hand records). Sometimes i make a mark as a reminder that i want to discuss the hand later, and why.

 

Is that a violation, then? It seems wrong to make everyone wait after the hand while i do this.