negative double or bid?

[gambolero]

[hv=pc=n&s=st64hajt54dkj7c43&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1d1s]133|200[/hv]

 

double or 2♥?

Fourth seat is going to raise spades with just about any hand with 3+ spades.

If you bid 2♥, is such a call forcing when 4th seat passes?

Change the heart ace to the queen. Does your answer change?

How about if the club 3 is swapped with the ace?

[CSGibson]

Usually the rule is that you need 10 or more high card points and a 5+ card suit to respond at the 2 level. A 2H bid would be forcing 1 round on opener, but if opener raises responder's suit, rebids his own suit at the cheapest level, or bids NT at the cheapest level, then responder may pass with a minimum.

 

examples of sequences where responder is not forced to bid again:

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1d1s2hp3hppp]133|100[/hv]

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1d1s2hp3dppp]133|100[/hv]

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1d1s2hp2nppp]133|100[/hv]

 

 

On your example hand, even though I only have 9 HCP, I think it would be best to stretch to bid 2♥ because of the fitting diamond honors, and the nice honor structure in hearts. If you changed the heart ace to the Q, then I would make a negative double. If you changed the club 3 to the club ace, then it would be a clear 2♥ call.

[Endymion77]

> If you bid 2♥, is such a call forcing when 4th seat passes?

 

By default, yes

 

♠1064 ♥AJ1054 ♦KJ3 ♣43

 

At MPs, I would bid 2♥. At IMPs, I would double and bid 2♦ if partner responds 1NT/2♣. I would raise 2♦ to 3♦.

 

♠1064 ♥QJ1054 ♦KJ3 ♣43

 

I would double and bid 2♦ if partner responds 1NT/2♣. I would pass 2♦.

 

♠1064 ♥AJ1054 ♦KJ3 ♣A3

 

I would bid 2♥.

[RSClyde]

This seems like a pretty clear double to me. 2♥ certainly might work, but double seems correct.

10 HCP seems a little odd as a standard. I'm no historian but my understanding is that when this rule was probably written was in the days of 16-18 no trumps and generally sounder opening bids. In such a system where that was enough to invite game opposite an opener.

As opening bids have softened, this hasn't really changed to balance that. The lighter you open, the sounder your two level bids in competition should be. Otherwise you end up too high for no reason. On this hand for example, you rate to be too high the second partner doesn't have a heart fit (unless he has long diamonds). Then when partner has to routinely hold himself back opposite your 2 level call, you'll have to bid again when you have an invitational hand because you won't have communicated those values the first time.

I understand that violating this can work when there's a suit that you're dying to get off your chest. But a 5 card suit and a balanced hand?

[lowerline]

[hv=pc=n&s=st64hajt54dkj7c43&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1d1s]133|200[/hv]

 

double or 2♥?

Fourth seat is going to raise spades with just about any hand with 3+ spades.

If you bid 2♥, is such a call forcing when 4th seat passes?

Change the heart ace to the queen. Does your answer change?

How about if the club 3 is swapped with the ace?

 

There are basically two approaches here: negative freebids (non-forcing with a 5crd suit, around 8-11; some stronger hands have to double first) or 2/1 one round forcing (also showing a 5crd suit). It is important to know what you are playing.

But with this hand I would always bid 2♥ (very minimum when forcing, but maximum when not forcing).

 

Steven

[CSGibson]

 

10 HCP seems a little odd as a standard.

 

But 10 HCP is the standard. Whatever your non-standard views are, the novice and beginner forum is not the place to air them, you wind up confusing people who need to learn the basics.