Bidding options

[1eyedjack]

[hv=pc=n&s=sat972hq8djcak973&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1d(minor suit opening -- 3+ D; 11-21 HCP; 12-22 total points)p1h(One over one -- 4+ H; 6+ total points)d(Two suit takeout -- 4+ C; 5- D; 5- H; 4+ S; 12+ total points)r(Support redouble - 3 H -- 3+ D; 3 H; 11-21 HCP; 12-22 total points)1s(4+ S; 10- total points)2s(Limit major raise -- 5+ H; 10-12 total points)?]133|200|MP Instant tourney, best hand South[/hv]

 

Not really a bidding poll; A quiet 3♠ seems middle of the road here. But I was intrigued by the options available when I moused over the other legal possibilities:

 

Pass = "No suitable call -- 4+ C; 5- D; 5- H; 4+ S; 12-20 total points" (so far so good)

Dbl = "4+ C; 5-D; 5- H; rebiddable S; 16+ total points" (a bit odd, but OK)

2N = "2-5 C; 2-5 D; 2-5 H; 2-5 S; 21-23 HCP; stop in D; stop in H" (WTF??)

3♣ = "Twice rebiddable C; 20+ total points" (no mention of Spades)

3♦ = "2-4 C; 2-4 D; 2-4 H; 2-4 S; 18+ total points; at best stop in D" (another WTF? And anyway, what on earth does "at best stop in D" mean?)

3♥ = "Twice rebiddable H; 22+ total points" (Woah there, trigger!)

3♠ = "4+ C; 5- D; 5- H; 4+ S; 12-19 total points" (almost sane)

3N = "2-5 C; 2-5 D; 2-4 H; 2-4 S; 22-25 HCP; stop in D; stop in H" (and so we return to Dante's 7th circle of hell)

 

I was about to stop at 3N, but then as Willie Carson would say, "there's more!"

 

4♣ = "3- S; twice rebiddable C; 23-25 total points" (erm. Haven't we already promised 4+ S?)

4♦ = "4+ S; 18+ total points" (Woah there, trigger! So, 3♠ shows up to 19 total points, but 4♦ shows 18+??)

 

OK have to stop here. The tourney timed out and I have lost the hand now.

[Antrax]

Not sure why it's so strange. If you double and bid NT, you show stoppers and a hand too good for 1NT overcall. If you double and bid a new suit, you promise a GOSH. If you double and cue bid, it shows the strong balanced hand without stopper. I also play direct 2♥ here as natural, so I can see why 3♥ after double also would be.

[1eyedjack]

Not sure why it's so strange. If you double and bid NT, you show stoppers and a hand too good for 1NT overcall. If you double and bid a new suit, you promise a GOSH. If you double and cue bid, it shows the strong balanced hand without stopper. I also play direct 2♥ here as natural, so I can see why 3♥ after double also would be.

 

The hand types that you describe are not included in explanation for the double, which explanation I see is not reproduced in full in the diagram due to the age old software bug.

 

It should display as

"Two suit takeout -- 4+ C; 5- D; 5- H; 4+ S; 12+ total points"

 

 

And anyway, what about the distinction between 3♠ and 4♦?

[Bbradley62]

And anyway, what about the distinction between 3♠ and 4♦?

And the distinction between 3♣ and 4♣.

[Lord Molyb]

And the distinction between 3♣ and 4♣.

obviously point count :P

[georgi]

What about hand having

 

♠AK

♥AQ

♦x

♣AKQxxxx

 

Up to this moment XX says nothing but 3 cards in hearts.

 

So if promising spades hangs all the way up, the complaint would be that it's impossible to bid clubs as GIB would always try to pull in spades.

 

Even if partner-GIB didn't bid 1M/2M at all.

 

How would a hand having one suit would force in that auction without promising 3+/4+ in 4th suit? Or just bid 4M/5m and all settled?

 

Next time would be 1♣ - p - 1♠ - X and if that promises 4+♥ 4+ ♦ and 4th seat has solid hearts? Will that person willing to be pulled in diamonds contract with singleton heart or wants to play in hearts?

 

Certainly in different sequences there might be a holes along, but question about strong one suiter hand after two suits by opps would remain.

[1eyedjack]

I don't violently object to starting with X on that hand. It is not my preferred style but if a partner insisted that I played it then i would go along with it rather than argue. Life is too short.

 

But I do violently object to agreeing that X may contain this hand and then describe the X as "4+ C; 5- D; 5- H; 4+ S; etc"

 

I appreciate that available space for a full explanation may be limited.