Simple bidding question

[kenberg]

I wouldn't mind hearing a little more from those who, like me, bid 1♦. What next? Certainly if lho raises clubs and it comes back to me I double. I'll be happy with that, And I first said that if after my 1♦ it goes pass-1NT-pass I would raise to 2NT but then changed my mind and said I would raise to 3. I'm thinking the diamonds may well come in on that auction. I'm not so sure what is best if after 1♦ it goes pass-1M-pass. I want to stipulate that the 1M is non-forcing but at least somewhat constructive. A good five card suit would suffice. It seems that when this happens I am already miles ahead of the doublers since no one forced partner to do anything. But still I have to choose how to continue. Maybe a simple raise is not enough.

 

My experience with hands such as this is that the 1♦ works just fine. Probably one side or the other will be playing in a part score and 1♦ gets us off to a good start. But game could be there and it's not so clear to me what the right call is if pard trots out a major and the opponents pass.

[ggwhiz]

What next?

 

Without 100% conviction, after 1M from partner passed to me I think I'm worth a 2♣ cue.

 

Then pass 2M and raise 2nt to game are easy enough.

 

If partner simply prefers 2♦ I'm bidding 2M thinking they have either 3 diamonds and constructive values (no immediate raise) or a doubleton. The hands with 4 in the major should have enough tickets to play well enough on the moyse.

 

There is a downside in partner playing us for 4 card support and getting us to 4M but 1. it might make 2. many of those would look like a 2nt bid instead of 2♦.

 

After the 1♣ opening if it goes (all by us)

 

1♦ - 1♥

2♣ - 2♦

2♥ - 2♠

 

I expect something like 4-4-2-3 with no club stopper and constructive values and have no risk proof answer to that one or some similar that I'm no doubt overlooking.

[Lurpoa]

X and 1♦ are both fine. Even without playing Cyber's form of one level overcall, a 1♦ overcall shows a good hand or a good suit or both. The big advantage of 1♦ to me is that the follow-ups are easy. If partner advances 1M (yes, still forcing for me gszes) we can go 2♣ and then follow up with support. If partner passes and they re-open clubs we can double. The auction after an initial double is also easy if they pass but here we are more likely to run into a barrage and that is where things might get tricky.

 

Yes, this might be true.

 

Be The Heart with You, Zel !

[trevahound]

I'm surprised at the dismissal of 1nt. A direct 1nt overcall shows ballpark 15-18, and a balanced hand. Perfect -- that's what I have. If partner has a 5c major of *any strength* we'll likely get to the right strain. We're likely to get to the right game if partner has a little something. LHO will be on lead, and when I'm on lead in this auction normally the last thing I'm leading is a club, so even if we get to 3nt wide open in clubs, they might not be lead, they could split, they could block.

 

We routinely bid 3nt after an opp preempts without a more sensible call available and without a stopper, relying on opps not to have a solid suit, or it to block, or whatever, yet we're petrified of overcalling a 1♣ opening without a stopper? Seems bizzare and perhaps an artifact of answering in a forum, in writing, rather than at the table. There's nothing wrong with 1♦ or X (pass is perverse), but both are less descriptive than 1nt, and both will make it harder for partner to help with strain and level.

 

Brian Zaugg

[Fluffy]

I considered doubling with 3361 standard, I will have to rethink my approach. I am pretty sure I won't overcall with 3352 anytime soon though. Only the 16-17 range that makes the overcall+double a good description makes this one close. But with minimum hands its a big mistake to overcall IMO.

[Zelandakh]

Btw, some gremlin keeps highlighting some of what I say in red.

Run your virus scanner Ken! If you do not have an up-to-date one then go to Trend Micro and run Housecall. If you are computer-savvy, you could also check the process list, BHOs and registry.

 

 

I'm not so sure what is best if after 1♦ it goes pass-1M-pass.

I play 1M as forcing here but I am not sure it makes a big difference. As I wrote before, start with a cue bid and then support partner's major. The auction should develop easily and naturally from there.

[Trinidad]

So you would not overcall a 1C opening with

 

xxx

Kxx

AQT98

xx

I wouldn't.

- I don't have the decent hand that I am advertising.

- I am not taking away any bidding room.

+ I would direct a diamond lead for my partner.

 

More minuses then pluses.

 

Oh, you thought I would pass? Don't be silly. I would bid 2♦.

+ advertises the right strength of my hand.

+ showing a good suit, rather than a good hand.

+ takes away bidding room.

+ directs a lead for my partner.

- partner might think I have six diamonds.

 

More pluses than minuses.

 

Rik

[WGF_Flame]

I have 2 important things in my hands

1. diamond suit

2. support for all suits

If i had to show this hand in one bid, i would choose double, but sicne I worth 2 bids, i will start with 1 dimaond and if possible will double later.

 

Notice that you cant do the opposite, doubling and later bidding diamond will show a strong diamond one suiter. (unless you play something else)

[rmnka447]

I bid 1 ♦.

 

It pays to consider how the bidding will develop if you have a hand strong enough to possibly take a second competitive bid. Here the obvious choices are double/then bid ♦ later or bid ♦/then double later.

 

Either might be workable if the opponents remain silent. But if you double, an opponent might make a weak jump shift bid or a preemptive ♣ raise. Then, you'd have to bid 3 ♦ to show your ♦ suit. Bidding 3 ♦ on a AQxxx suit with an unknown level of partner support is pretty risky. In the meantime, partner will be unaware of an opportunity to compete in ♦ because the ♦ suit remains hidden. As other have pointed out, after a double, partner may well compete in a 4 card major suit(s). That introduces some uncertainty about whether to you should compete further on 3 card support.

 

OTOH, if you overcall 1 ♦, partner will have an opportunity to compete in ♦, if it's right. And if partner introduces a major over your overcall, it will likely be a 5+ card suit. So you'll be more comfortable raising with 3 cards. If the opponents don't raise the level too high, you may still have an opportunity to compete in a major with a double if partner is silent. And when you do double, partner won't expect you to have more than 3 cards in any major because of the overcall. So partner is more likely to make a right decision(s) about what level and what strain to compete in (major versus ♦s).