Bid after Pass out of Turn

[broze]

Your bid, but see below

 

[hv=pc=n&e=saqjt9862haqj3dc6&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1c]133|200|[/hv]

 

 

 

RHO opens 1♣, and while you are thinking about what to do partner passes! Director informs you that partner has to pass for the rest of the auction.

 

What do you do now?

 

(As an aside, what exactly am I authorised to know about p's hand, and when am I allowed to know it?)

 

Sorry about multiple questions and sorry if wrong forum.

[aguahombre]

If partner were barred for some other reason...I.E., I didn't have the UI about his pass, 6♠ would be a L.A., as would 4S, IMO. I have the AI that RHO has values, but I would need an entry or two over there to take advantage of that (finesses); so I might well choose 4S.

 

In other words I am not convinced 6♠ is the lesser suggested action from the POOT. But, I know it cannot be ruled to demonstrably have been suggested. Gonna choose it.

 

I might get an adverse ruling if I bid 4S, but I wouldn't give such a ruling as TD.

[barmar]

From the AI, LHO and CHO probably have at most about 13 HCP combined, so partner doesn't rate to have much more than 7. The chance that these 7 points include the ♣A or ♥K seems pretty remote. So I don't think 6♠ is a LA, and I can be allowed to bid 4♠.

[sfi]

How about pass? I'll bet they don't play in 1C and I may have a better chance of hearing what I need.

 

Not sure if I'd do this at the table, but it seems worthy of consideration.

[32519]

Very interesting post you made here. Can you post all four hands? I would love to see what the actual layout was.

[Cyberyeti]

How about pass? I'll bet they don't play in 1C and I may have a better chance of hearing what I need.

 

Not sure if I'd do this at the table, but it seems worthy of consideration.

 

Depends if you can do this smoothly, otherwise you're very likely to be on lead

[campboy]

I note that the TD forgot to tell you you can't double (not that you'd want to).

 

I don't think pass is legal, since the UI (that partner is weak so South is more likely to have responding values) makes it more likely to be successful. I agree with Barmar about 4♠ vs 6♠.

[Free]

Pass is a tactical choice:

- you'll gather information to decide between 4♠ and 6♠

- you'll gather information about opponents' distributions, which might be useful when declaring the hand

 

Passing is definitely legal. Hell, you can even bid some number of ♦s if you want to fool around.

[Zelandakh]

Free, say your partner had bid 1NT. Now you can pretty sure that a pass from you would result in a contract of 1♣ and a missed game or slam. That partner's COOT was actually a pass suggests that pass has a better chance of succeeding. That (16D2) is why campboy believes pass is not a legal possibility.

[Cyberyeti]

In this case, you don't know what was in partner's mind when he passed, whether he thought he was opening the bidding, whether he thought he was passing over opps 1♣, or whether he was passing over your 1♣. The chance of him opening the bidding would be pretty small, depending on your overcalling style, the chance of him overcalling might be quite small (and he might even have a decent hand with clubs), so I don't think it tells you very much.

 

I think you have a free choice of 4♠/6♠/pass but pass is just bad not illegal, 10♥ is all you need for game.

[MrAce]

4♠

[Lurpoa]

We would bid 4♠.

But as I said in the past, we are Lurpoa.

[MrAce]

We would bid 4♠.

But as I said in the past, we are Lurpoa.

 

Are you telling us there are more than 1 Lurpoa ? I had so many nightmares started just like that....http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif

[Free]

Free, say your partner had bid 1NT. Now you can pretty sure that a pass from you would result in a contract of 1♣ and a missed game or slam. That partner's COOT was actually a pass suggests that pass has a better chance of succeeding. That (16D2) is why campboy believes pass is not a legal possibility.

Passing out of turn isn't the same as bidding out of turn, they're handled differently, so comparing them is quite impossible.

[Lorne50]

4♠ for me.

 

6♠ is less that 50% to make so I do not see why I should be forced to bid it and the UI does not help much as you know from the bidding partner is very likely to be weak anyway, and you only want to be in slam if he has the K♥ or A♣ (I know you might make with other holding but spades is the only suit likely to come in with one finesse).

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&e=saqjt9862haqj3dc6&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1c]133|200|

RHO opens 1♣, and while you are thinking about what to do partner passes! Director informs you that partner has to pass for the rest of the auction.

What do you do now?

(As an aside, what exactly am I authorised to know about p's hand, and when am I allowed to know it?)

Sorry about multiple questions and sorry if wrong forum.[/hv]

We would bid 4♠. But as I said in the past, we are Lurpoa.

We too are Lurpoa :) 4♠ = 10, 6♠ = 5, Pass = 0

The question about what you are allowed to know about partner's pass is intriguing because, assuming that 4♠ and 6♠ are logical alternatives, then knowledge that partner lacks opening values would suggest the former over the latter.

I'm unsure whether pass is legal because it's a kind of psych that may con opponents into helping you without any risk that partner will act on a wrong inference.

[broze]

Very interesting post you made here. Can you post all four hands? I would love to see what the actual layout was.

 

Full deal:

 

 

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[kenrexford]

Passing has to be a lawful alternative. I cannot imagine that partner being forced to pass throughout is itself UI. When you have a strange situation like that, passing to get info from the opponents seems like a very good tactic.

 

Actually, it is kind of funny. If you pass, South probably bids 1♠, and then North has to be tricky to avoid telling you about the likely heart fit. Your auction might well be Pass...6♥!