a tossup?

[gwnn]

OK so IMP's and the bidding opened

 

1S-1NT

3H-?

 

Where 3H is forcing but not game forcing, say, 14+ with 5-5 or 16+ with 5-4.

 

9x

xxx

Q98xx

AKx

 

It would seem like

3NT, 4H and 4S are your only options - 3S is nonforcing. I don't know what 4m means and neither does partner. What do you bid?

 

PS: I know that 3H is better played as any of:

-GF with 5-4 or better

-GF with 5-4 exactly

-GF with 5-5

-NF with 5-5, 14-16 or so

-some other use that I can't remind me (mini-autosplinter anyone?)

 

But this is what we play and .. let's leave it at that.

[MickyB]

3NT

[JLOGIC]

Methods are unplayable but I'd bid 3N given the agreements

[mikeh]

I don't understand why 3♠ is unthinkable merely because it is not forcing.

 

Wtf are we thinking when a completely misfitting 9 count is a gf opposite a 5-5 14 or 5-4 16 count?

 

For one thing, how on earth do we figure out which major to play in?

 

If he is 5-5 14 or so then we want to play in hearts, but do we have a cog cuebid? I don't think so.

 

If he is 5-4, 16 or so, we probably can take out chances in 3N, but how can we tell? Not that 3N is exactly a joy to play opposite most 16 counts 5-4.

 

However, given that it is imps, and that my hand will be hidden, I'll risk 3N while mentally noting to discuss different methods with partner before we play again. I echo Justin: the methods seem unplayable.

 

I think 3♠ is an entirely reasonable call, btw.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

If 3H were GF, then 3S would agree ♠ and 4C/4D would be advance cuebids agreeing ♥ .

[gwnn]

If 3H were GF, then 3S would agree ♠ and 4C/4D would be advance cuebids agreeing ♥ .

What if I had never let you go? Would you be the man I used to know? What if I had never walked away? Cause I still love you more than I can say...

[Zelandakh]

Having once played a similar method as a junior (albeit not allowing for 14 counts) I feel confident in 3NT being the best bet. And yes, the method is barely playable but at the time the only alternative was something completely unplayable.

[gwnn]

Partner had JT8xx AKQxx Kx J and said that 4H was clear and I was bidding without looking at my cards when I bid 3NT (down 1). Anyway I managed to convince him that 2♥ is a better bid on hands like this and I promised to bid 2♠ on most hands with 2-3 in the majors. He also said that he'd never heard of 1S-1N; 3H-3S as being forcing so I didn't want to push my luck. I'm not really complaining about partner here, as I said many times before I have a lot to learn form him in other areas of the game but in bidding sometimes I'm in very interesting problems that I wouldn't be when playing with practically anyone on these forums (he also finds himself in problems that he wouldn't if he'd be playing with practically anyone else from the clubs).

 

The other table had 2NT= (how can you get there??) so we lost 5 instead of gaining 7.

 

And thanks for mikeh for the idea of 3♠, you made a very good case for it being a reasonable option, I would definitely bid it sooner now than 4M.

[ArtK78]

Partner had JT8xx AKQxx Kx J and said that 4H was clear and I was bidding without looking at my cards when I bid 3NT (down 1). Anyway I managed to convince him that 2♥ is a better bid on hands like this and I promised to bid 2♠ on most hands with 2-3 in the majors. He also said that he'd never heard of 1S-1N; 3H-3S as being forcing so I didn't want to push my luck. I'm not really complaining about partner here, as I said many times before I have a lot to learn form him in other areas of the game but in bidding sometimes I'm in very interesting problems that I wouldn't be when playing with practically anyone on these forums (he also finds himself in problems that he wouldn't if he'd be playing with practically anyone else from the clubs).

I looked at the cards and I would have bid 3NT. But that's me. I have to admit that if I knew what was in partner's hand then 4♥ by me would be clear.

 

The other table had 2NT= (how can you get there??) so we lost 5 instead of gaining 7.

1♠ - 1NT - 2♥ - 2NT - All Pass. Not that I recommend passing 2NT on 5-5 in the majors, but that was not your question.

 

And thanks for mikeh for the idea of 3♠, you made a very good case for it being a reasonable option, I would definitely bid it sooner now than 4M.

I guess the main case for bidding 3♠ is that if partner passes it is not an unreasonable contract and any other choice may have been unreasonable. And, if partner does not pass 3♠ you still have a chance to get to the right contract, whatever that may be. Still, I would bid 3NT.

[Zelandakh]

The other table had 2NT= (how can you get there??) so we lost 5 instead of gaining 7.

You get there by the typical club sequence of 1♠ - 1NT/2♦; 2♥ - 2NT. Some pairs like to differenciate between a "forced" 2NT rebid and a full invite through tempo or other mannerisms.

 

Even playing the "jump shows extras" method rather than as a GF, that hand is surely too weak. One of the very few advantages of it is that 1♠ - 1NT; 2♥ - 2♠; 3♥ shows precisely this hand, although half the time you wished you had stayed in 2♠ - is still better than jumping to 3♥ though. Ask him to keep the strength of the jumps up to hands of at least reversing values. That keep the simple new suit rebid limited (some players are scared of the wide range) without causing such impossible headaches when you have the uncomfortable jump auction, not to mention making the jump rarer. In any case your partner is wrong and is bidding your hand by looking at his own. You have been on BBF long enough to know this phenomenon.