advancing

[gambolero]

1♦ - (1♥) - Pass - (?)

 

2♦ would be a good heart raise.

 

What is 1♠ here in terms of length/strength and forcing or not?

How about 2♣? length/strength/forcing?

 

What's your bid with ♠AKx ♥Ax ♦xxxx ♣QJxx?

[HighLow21]

1♦ - (1♥) - Pass - (?)

 

2♦ would be a good heart raise.

 

What is 1♠ here in terms of length/strength and forcing or not?

How about 2♣? length/strength/forcing?

 

What's your bid with ♠AKx ♥Ax ♦xxxx ♣QJxx?

Why can't 2♦ just be a forcing hand rather than specifically a heart raise?

[Endymion77]

If 2♦ is ONLY a good heart raise, I guess you need to play 1♠ and 2♣ as forcing. Traditionally, both are non-forcing although 2♣ is constructive. With the hand in question, you're stuck with 2♦ either way (no matter if it's a general force, or a good heart raise).

[1eyedjack]

The majority treatment in my experience is for a new suit to be forcing except by a passed hand.

[Trinidad]

There are several different styles and all are playable:

 

• 
   
  
• Some play new suits are not forcing, but then the cuebid is used for all good hands.
  
• Others play new suits at the one or three level as forcing, but at the two level as non forcing. Then, a cuebid tends to show a good heart raise, but could be on a good hand that is unsuitable for a bid at the one level (insufficient :) ) or at the three level (not enough of a suit).
  
• Again others, play that new suits are forcing for one round. Then the cuebid always shows a heart raise.
  

The hand that you have is difficult in the last two styles, and great for the first one. It is good to recognize that this hand type is infrequent: LHO has opened, partner has overcalled, and you may well hold the best hand at the table! Not only that, but you don't have 3 hearts, you don't have a suit to bid and you lack a stopper to bid NT.

 

While obviously these hands do occur, I don't think it is bad bridge to forget about them when designing a bidding system. That leaves the practical problem what to do when you actually do get this hand. The first thing to do is be okay with the idea that you might lose this board and then make the best of it.

 

I play the third style: a new suit is forcing for 1 round. If my partner held this hand and he would bid NT (the number depending on our overcall style), 2♦ (anyway) or 2♣ I would understand it and accept a possible bad result. I, myself, would pick 2♣ today. Tomorrow, I may pick one of the others. (It also depends a little bit on the opponents: can you bluff a diamond stop or not.)

 

Rik

[mcphee]

When I see this sort of hand and partner has over called I will be making strong game suggestions . I do not expect anyone to bid with no valid reason, assuming the form of scoring is imps. Lots of spots, maybe 4H or 3NT. The 2D bid is perfect and I am overjoyed if partner leaps to 4H. If they bid NT I raise, if they rebid a simple 2H I raise. If they bid clubs we will play game there.

[Trinidad]

The 2D bid is perfect

How can you say that when the bid promises a good heart raise? You are one heart short.

 

I am not saying that you shouldn't bid 2♦. I am merely saying that it has a serious flaw and, therefore, is definitely not perfect.

 

Or, in other words, the OP has a genuine problem and there is no perfect bid.

 

Rik

[Zelandakh]

Traditionally, both are non-forcing although 2♣ is constructive. With the hand in question, you're stuck with 2♦ either way (no matter if it's a general force, or a good heart raise).

Tradition depends on where you happen to be. While that is, for example, part of SAYC it is certainly not the way I learned on the other side of The Pond. No doubt Eastern Europe and Asia have their own regional traditions too.

 

Similarly, if you are playing the cue bid as a good raise (UCB) then you do not bid it with this hand. Rik said it well imo and I also concur with his 2♣ advance in the forcing change of suit style. With a diamond honour instead of 4 small, 2NT would come strongly into the picture.

[wyman]

Sorry, when I wrote the quote below, I hadn't noticed that we were in the N/B forum.

 

For folks that are just getting started, I'd recommend that cuebids always show the raise, and new suits are always forcing. It's not optimal, but it's fine. You should be concentrating more on judgment, hand evaluation, and cardplay than a perfect bidding system anyway at this point.

 

A playable (as in, I play it) style is:

 

When opps open and we overcall:

 

New suits (nonjump) at the one and three level are forcing.

New suits (nonjump) at the two level are NF const

Jumps are fit -- except in the auction (1X) 1Y (P) 3Z, where our cheapest bid in Z would have been 2Z (hence NF). [i.e., we are unpassed, 3rd hand passes, and Z < Y]