tysen2k Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 [hv=d=w&v=e&s=sxxhjxxdaqxxxcxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP(1♣) - Dbl - (P) - 1♦(1♥) - 1♠ - (P) - ?[/hv] Very simple bidding but it left me unsure of what the right response is. Any opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 3D would be my call. I showed 0-8 hcp by responding 1D, and now my partner has shown a hand too strong for a 1S overcall (18-21 roughly). I have a super max for my initial response, and 3D should get that message across. Will pass 3NT and raise 3S to 4. By the way, I might have considered jumping to 2D on my first turn with the nice diamond suit. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 A tough problem. Pd has a big hand, you have near the top for your 1D bid, you should probably be in game. 2D - too weak. 3D - you can't bid this with 5. 3S - you have 2 small. I would bid 2NT, and pray for rain :) Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 A tough problem. Pd has a big hand, you have near the top for your 1D bid, you should probably be in game. 2D - too weak. 3D - you can't bid this with 5. 3S - you have 2 small. I would bid 2NT, and pray for rain :) Peter I do not agree that you can't bid 3D with only 5. For all partner knows 1D could have been on 5432 and 0 hcp. NT is out of the question with no club stopper. Partner may take me seriously! Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 In another thread most posters said X and new suit was 16-18. Now 18-21. Barring detailed system agreement one gets the impression there is no wide expert consensus which results in blind overcall and raise style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 that other thread mainly dealt with klinger's suggestions, which make sense and at least leave room for agreement/discussion... you're right tho, in his methods 2s here would be 19+, with 1s showing 16-18 or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 "I do not agree that you can't bid 3D with only 5. For all partner knows 1D could have been on 5432 and 0 hcp. NT is out of the question with no club stopper. Partner may take me seriously! Roland" Well, I know that you're the expert and I'm definitely not, but:1) Mightn't pd take your rebid of diamonds seriously (i.e. 6 cards), and2) After 2NT, with 6 spades, pd will rebid, and with 5, he has a decent chance of a club stopper, not to mention the other half of the heart stopper ;) or may bid 3D if he's 5341 or suchlike. 2NT is a bad bid, I just think 3D is worse. Peter P.S. 5432 and I call the director! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysen2k Posted January 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 In another thread most posters said X and new suit was 16-18. Now 18-21. Barring detailed system agreement one gets the impression there is no wide expert consensus which results in blind overcall and raise style.There is no expert consensus, but let's say for this problem the partnership agreement is that doubling and then bidding shows 17+. I think modern bidding theory is pushing this higher and making a simple overcall with a higher maximum. Tysen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 i'm not crazy about 3♦ either, but i like it better than 2nt... partner doubled clubs (maybe with a stopper, maybe not, but if so i want him declaring nt)... i'm not too bad for my bid, especially if he's 17, 18 or so... my only worry is 4♦ by him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 I bid 2D now. This hand is worth nowhere near a 2D call on the first round or a 3D bid now. Those are poor bids! Remenber that 1S is not forcing, though I agree partner has shown a good hand. If partner bids 2S I will raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 2C should do the job. 3D is not a bad call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 2S? Lot of assumptions below but here goes: I will assume 1s=17-21 and a very good suit.With 3 spades and good working 7-8 HCP I will bid 4s.I seem to have 6 working HCP and assume 1D showed around 0-8HCP.I will assume a 3s bid by me is non forcing but shows some maximum 6HCP hand and 3 spades.Assume cuebid shows some maximum but not sure how p will take a 2c versus 2h cuebid.Assume pass=0-3 HCP Hope 2s=4-5 working HCP and 3s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 I bid 2D now. This hand is worth nowhere near a 2D call on the first round or a 3D bid now. Those are poor bids! Remenber that 1S is not forcing, though I agree partner has shown a good hand. If partner bids 2S I will raise. Excuse me. You would bid 2D now, and presumably the same with x xxx QJxxxx Jxx How on earth is partner to know which of the two hands you've got? He might be interested in learning that you have an excellent hand for your 1D response. That is why I suggest 3D. 2C would be my second choice, but I am reluctant to use an unassuming cue bid when I have a natural bid available. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 The problem with the 3D overbid is that partner will overvalue Kx of D, expecting your hand to provide at least 5, possibly 6 tricks. Unless Ds break 3-3 that will not be the case. I repeat, this 9 loser hand is not worth 3D. As I stated in my post, if pd bids over 2D, (say 2S), I will take further action. If he passes 2D I dubt very much whether we would have had a game on. Roland your 3D bid deserves a 3NT bid from pd onAJxxxxAKxKxKx Now tell me from where your 9 tricks are coming when the Ds don't break 3-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Roland your 3D bid deserves a 3NT bid from pd onAJxxxxAKxKxKx Now tell me from where your 9 tricks are coming when the Ds don't break 3-3. From nowhere, but believe me, I have been in worse games than this (35.5%). Besides, we may still get to a making 4S. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 2C is my first choice, 2N is next. 2NT? never. I'd rather raise to 3S than 2NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 I am an absolute max for 1♦; so I need to make some noise. Normally cue bids here should show some something in the suit, but this is unclear since we may have a spade fit and not want to jump or something else. 2♥ for me. While pard might take it as natural (should he?), it certainly shows I am at the top of my bid, and don't have club stopped, and not a preponderance of spade support. It also does not over-emphasize diamonds (and waste space) like 3♦ does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 [hv=d=w&v=e&s=sxxhjxxdaqxxxcxxx]133|100|Scoring: IMP(1♣) - Dbl - (P) - 1♦(1♥) - 1♠ - (P) - ?[/hv] Very simple bidding but it left me unsure of what the right response is. Any opinions?2♦ showing 5♦ and a few points ( but obviously less than 10 cos u didn't JUMP to 2♦ origionally ;) (OR is this being too simplistic????) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 I don't think a 2♦ bid promises anything. Its not constructive; you are simply removing 1♠ to something more playable. You'd make the call on: x, xxx, Txxxxx, xxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 I would pass with that hand, assume 2D would show at least KJxxxx to AQxxxx. Close. Just hope my 2S is ok if not perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 I have a question. What would be your initial action over 1 club holding ♠ AQJxx, ♥ KQ10x, ♦ Kx, ♣ xx ? I question whether 1♠ on this bidding necessarily shows a GOSH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 I don't think a 2♦ bid promises anything. Its not constructive; you are simply removing 1♠ to something more playable. You'd make the call on: x, xxx, Txxxxx, xxx. No Phil. I would definitely pass that hand. That is where Roland is making the same basic error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 Ron: If pard can double 1♥ on a hand like: AKJxx, AQJ, Kxx, xx; then I don't mind the agreement that 2♦ shows something other than a string of diamonds. If double is TO (leaning toward cooperative), then 1♠ should be reserved for GOSH. If the double of 1♥ is penalty, then hands like my example should bid 1♠, and hands with a string of diamonds need the flexibility to pull. I still like 2♥ by the way; regardless of the meaning of 2♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 I have a question. What would be your initial action over 1 club holding ♠ AQJxx, ♥ KQ10x, ♦ Kx, ♣ xx ? I question whether 1♠ on this bidding necessarily shows a GOSH. I would bid 1♠, there is no reasonable alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted January 30, 2005 Report Share Posted January 30, 2005 I suppose it is a matter of agreement, but I have always played that 2D just means "I think 2D will be a better contract than 1S" (bids don't get much more natural than that!). Typical hand would be 1 spade, 6 diamonds, and not much in the way of HCP. I would rather have a more "diamond-oriented hand" for 3D, but I wouldn't say I hate that call. Still, I prefer a cuebid of one of LHO's suits. This should carry the message "I have a good hand for my 1D bid, but no clear direction" (ie I don't have the stoppers to bid notrump, enough spades to raise spades, or a good enough suit to jump to 3D). 2C has the advantage over 2H that it gives partner a chance to bid 2D (which I can then raise to 3D and let pard takes thing from there). If he bids 2H instead I can bid 2S and if he bids 2S or 2NT I can raise. 2H has the advantage over 2C that you actually have something in hearts, but I doubt that the difference between Jxx and xxx really matters (or, if it does, that bidding 2H will clue partner in that the Jack of hearts is a critical card). So I guess I like 2C best. Good problem! It wouldn't surprise me if Kokish said "You don't need 2 cuebids here - one of 2C and 2H should be natural" (but it would take some serious work for him to convince me that he was "right"). Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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