how penaltish is this double?

[helene_t]

1♦-(2♣)-dbl-(2♠)

pass-(p)-dbl

[broze]

I think it's best to call this double "convertible values" but I would expect 4♥ for sure. We need to balance finding our 4-4 heart fit against hurting them when the 2♣ bidder has a singleton spade - we know the opps have a misfit.

 

Hand type 1 is ruled out for us because we will either shade a 2♥ bid initially (depending on suit quality) or bid 2NT now showing 5=4 or 5=3 in the reds.

 

Hand type 4 is out for us for not having 4♥. We will miss out on a penalty occasionally but I feel having the security of knowing about the ♥ fit is more important on this auction. Partner should make a takeout double on all hands with a spade singleton anyway.

 

We could hold either hands 2 or 3, or 2=4=3=4 shape which you haven't mentioned (I definitely want to be able to dbl with this.)

 

Would be interested to hear others' opinions.

[billw55]

I love penalizing. But few things are absolute at the two level, and doubles especially.

[TylerE]

I think I was 4+-4+-x-x when I Xed the first time (X for me there absolutely promises both majors)

[DJNeill]

It's just saying it's our hand, shape as expected. Perhaps responder would try 2N with just 3 of them.

 

Thanks,

Dan

[aguahombre]

It's just saying it's our hand, shape as expected. Perhaps responder would try 2N with just 3 of them.

 

Thanks,

Dan

With the values for 2NT, and both black suits stopped (either three or four cards in Spades), I am content with the second Double.

 

2NT on this auction would show a fifth heart and diamond support ---but, 2♥ the first time would have been stronger for us than for many people.

[Fluffy]

I think I was 4+-4+-x-x when I Xed the first time (X for me there absolutely promises both majors)

 

What do you bid with strong hands with 3 diamonds, or even with 4 of them?

[TylerE]

Strong hands with support start with a cue.