points needed to open in 3rd seat

[spadebaby]

My partner opened with only 10 pts in 3rd seat today, and I was thinking she had

13 points. Needless to say we went too high in the contract and went up 1.

I have never heard of this.

The only thing other than needing 13 points to open that I have ever heard is: in the 4th seat you can

open with 11 points. Of course, if you like the shape of your hand....sometimes I have opened with 12...but very

rarely.

 

Can anyone help me with this?

[diana_eva]

One of the things I learned the hard way was to bid my own hand. No matter how many points your partner has, if you have an invite bid, make an invite and leave the rest to your partner.

[Antrax]

There's a more advanced concept of opening light in third seat. However, as responder you don't have to account for it - it's opener's responsibility to only do this when he feels he can control the subsequent bidding.

It would be interesting to hear more about the scenario - my guess is opener bid 1M with less than usual, and you invited by bidding 3M and went one off when he declined?

[blackshoe]

The theory behind opening light in third seat is that while the points might be 10 each around the table, it might also be that fourth seat has a lot, so third seat wants to get in and take up some of their bidding space. I don't know if you're into bidding books, but the best source I know on this subject is Mike Lawrence's Passed Hand Bidding. Intermediate level, and there's a lot in there, but worth the read, IMO.

[helene_t]

If you really require 13 points to open in first/second seat you will have to compensate for that by opening light in 3rd/4th seat. Otherwise too many boards will be passed out when you have 22-23 points between you.

 

And also, as others have mentioned, there is a tactical advantage of opening light in 3rd seat - it makes opps' bidding more awkward and if you have a good suit and you are likely to end up defending, you want to tell partner which suit to lead.

 

That said, the most important thing is to be comfortable with your agreements, not to have optimal agreements. So if you are not sure how to cope with light openings it might be a good idea to agree to play sound openings for now. Then you can maybe revise your agreements as you progress.

[billw55]

13 points to open is an old fashioned standard, even in 1st or 2nd position. I open most 12 counts and good 11 counts, and many posters here would consider my openings conservative.

 

Other than that, ditto everything Helene said.

[P_Marlowe]

My partner opened with only 10 pts in 3rd seat today, and I was thinking she had

13 points. Needless to say we went too high in the contract and went up 1.

I have never heard of this.

The only thing other than needing 13 points to open that I have ever heard is: in the 4th seat you can

open with 11 points. Of course, if you like the shape of your hand....sometimes I have opened with 12...but very

rarely.

 

Can anyone help me with this?

 

If you have nothing in 4th seat, you can pass. Simplified speaking, the way you described a 4th hand opening

is actual a hand to open in 3rd seat.

In general, if you are just beginning, I would try to avoid reducing your req. for a 3rd hand opening too much,

if at all, because else, the effect will be, that you end up reg. too high, or too low.

 

There exists tools out there, to deal with this problem, but wait as long as possible, before you decide to travel

down this road. You should first have a firm grip on the basics.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[spadebaby]

Thanks to everyone for your feedback. It was very helpful and enlightening.

I have only been playing since May of this year, but LOVE this game. It was only the

2nd time I ever played with this lady, so we don't really have any "agreements".

 

It was a new experience for me. So when she opened 1 c, I cam back with 1NT since I have a

balanced hand and 12 points. She came back with 2NT...so I went to 3, thinking we had 25.

 

Only went down 1...so wasnt too bad. But since I am going by the "books" of standard american

and she has been playing for 40 years, I was curious if she was going by old rules. Your input

helps a lot.

 

I think my playing of the hand is doing pretty well now....practicing counting all the cards has

been a challenge...but I am getting much better at it than where I was when I started. But my

bidding needs work.

I now have a partner for the next 3 months and we are going to play 3 times a week...and see what

improvements and progress I can make.

 

I think I will look into that bidding book mentioned: "Mike Lawrence's Passed Hand Bidding". Thanks for that

tip also.

[Antrax]

Your bidding was, if anything, too conservative. Your partner invited you to game with the 2NT bid. You were over the top of range (you showed 8-10 HCP), so you wisely accepted. If your partner opened light in third seat, then the 2NT has no justification. It shows around 18 HCP, which is not a light opening.

(As an aside, in SA your first response should've been 2NT assuming you had a balanced hand, 12 HCP and no four-card major. If you had a four-card major, you always* bid it before NT)

 

* there is no real "always" in bridge, but for now treat it as such.

[billw55]

Welcome to our little obsession hobby. We hope you stay for a while life.

 

Your partner's 2NT bid was very wrong, and was the cause of the accident. One thing you will find, is that playing a very long time does not automatically make one a good player. Some people can, and do, play for decades without advancing beyond novice level. Others might be decent players, but have particular types of errors that they cannot overcome. Your partner appears to be one of these two types. Don't let it worry you, but don't try to teach her. Do ask here about such issues, people will help.

[fromageGB]

If you really require 13 points to open in first/second seat you will have to compensate for that by opening light in 3rd/4th seat ...

... So if you are not sure how to cope with light openings it might be a good idea to agree to play sound openings for now. Then you can maybe revise your agreements as you progress.

Herein is a problem. If you agree to play "sound" (ie 13 hcp) openings then, as this post also says, you also need to play "light" in third seat. Much better when learning to play "middle of the road" openings than can apply in any seat.

 

I would suggest a rule of thumb that any 12 count opens, and any 11 with a 6 card suit or two 5 card suits.

[Zelandakh]

It was a new experience for me. So when she opened 1 c, I cam back with 1NT since I have a

balanced hand and 12 points. She came back with 2NT...so I went to 3, thinking we had 25.

 

Only went down 1...so wasnt too bad. But since I am going by the "books" of standard american

and she has been playing for 40 years, I was curious if she was going by old rules. Your input

helps a lot.

One of the things you will learn is that many long time bridge players know next to nothing about how to play the game well. If the bidding went as described here (P - 1♣; 1NT - 2NT; 3NT) then she is very likely to be in this category. In the meantime your own bidding was actually too conservative and you should probably have responded either 2NT or in a new suit with your 12hcp.

 

As others have already written, you might also look to get lessons in a more modern approach to bidding in which you would have opened the balanced 12 count. As a general rule, getting into the bidding before the opponents tends to be a good thing and helps accuracy for your side while hindering it for the opponents. Most important of all is that you and your partner agree though. Many good players will open lighter in third seat after two passes than as dealer. If they do so considerably lighter than agreed then they accept the possibility of getting too high. That moves into an area of bidding that is probably best avoided for the time being. Just to say that if you are bidding according to your agreements and your partner is not then they are always at fault if it goes wrong, even if there was something you could have done to avoid it. In this case, your partner made a bad call, showing ~5-6hcp more than they had, and paid for it. You will encounter this quite a lot and just need to accept that bad bidding from across the table is going to be normal until you find a good, regular partner.