15 Count Over Weak 2

[eagles123]

Matchpoints [hv=pc=n&n=sk9ht92dakq8cqj95&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=2s]133|200[/hv]

 

is it worth bidding with this type of hand or is pass more sensible? I chose 2N at the table but considered it quite risky!

 

thanks

 

Eagles

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sat843hq9dkjc8643&w=sk96hj742d95ck952&n=sq7ht63dqt864cajt&e=sj52hak85da732cq7&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p1nppp]399|300[/hv]

[gwnn]

2NT is indeed risky, therefore double is better. Don't worry too much about having 4 hearts. Partner should know that 3 hearts is also possible and should try for 3NT if he also has a spade stop.

[RSClyde]

I would double. 2nt might work. Pass is out of the question with doubleton spade and a 15 count.

[TylerE]

IMO

 

X = 10

Pass = 7

2NT = 2

 

The problem with 2NT, is that you need to hit partner to come close to making, and if you hit partner you'll be in a lot more than

 

I strongly prefer for 2NT to start at a robust 16 or so, and on this auction I'm counting your hand as more like 13... Kx in their suit is kinda bad, AKQx is overvalued at 9.

[wyman]

I would dbl.

 

[Aside for I/A's who happen to be reading: With good Lebensohl agreements, you will be able to play 3N when partner has GF values and only 4 hearts.]

[ArtK78]

The hand is worth an action (I advocate sound actions over preempts - this hand qualifies).

 

I lean towards double over 2NT, as you should have a better holding in spades for 2NT and the distribution is only 1 card off of a classic takeout double. Admittedly, the card is in hearts, and your heart holding of T9x is far from ideal for a takeout double. Hence, my lean, rather than strong preference, for the double.

 

I would not be upset with a partner who chose 2NT. Passing, on the other hand, is too wimpy (with all due respect to Popeye's friend).

[P_Marlowe]

2NT.

 

We had this discussion before.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[TylerE]

Sorry, but 2N is just bad here. We look booked for at least -2 when partner doesn't have much, and when he does we will quite possibly be -2 in 3N as well.

 

Even if parter has a "dream" hand like Jxx KQxx xxx Axx even 2N isn't assured, and we'll be playing 3.

[Wackojack]

I lean towards 2NT. The weak 2 opener raises the ante so that a bit of bad luck either way could give you a bad match point score.

 

Consider what partner's hand should be "on average" If opener has 7 points, partner's average is 9. If opener has 9 points partner's average is 8. Thus it seems that the risk in passing is roughly the same as in bidding. If you are going to bid then do you double or bid 2N?

 

I think that 2N is more likely to get you to both the right game or part score than the double. (Neither bid protects you from a penalty double should partner be very weak and balanced) After 2N partner can pass, transfer or bid 3N. Double drives you to the 3 level and possibly a 4-3 fit whether or not you are playing Lebensohl.

[eagles123]

Thanks folk, at the table LHO had AKQxx of hearts and RHo the Ace of Spades for a cold bottom in 2N - 1 when pretty much everyone else was in 2S going off with p having QTxx of spades :angry:

 

Eagles

[P_Marlowe]

Thanks folk, at the table LHO had AKQxx of hearts and RHo the Ace of Spades for a cold bottom in 2N - 1 when pretty much everyone else was in 2S going off with p having QTxx of spades :angry:

 

Eagles

So basically you went down, because the player on lead, had 5 cashing tricks in an unbid suit,

and the ace in the preempt suit was with the preemptor. Happens.

 

And would your partner happily have passed 2S? Not knowing, that you hold Kx in the preempt suit?

If he would, ask him, how he would have felt, if you turned up with xx or just a singleton.

And if he still says sure, ... prepare yourself for lots of 2Sx= / 2Sx+?

 

Having said that: 2NT is not everybodys cup of coffee, we had this discussion, what to do with

the same hand after 1S opening.

I voted 1NT, so no big surprise when I vote for 2NT, lots of other players, some much better than me,

voted X. Take your choice, accept the bad beats.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[TylerE]

we had this discussion, what to do with

the same hand after 1S opening.

I voted 1NT, so no big surprise when I vote for 2NT

 

1NT is a very different contract than 2NT.

[gwnn]

I also double vs 1S for what it's worth.

[ArtK78]

1NT is a very different contract than 2NT.

And a 1♠ opening is a much different opening than a 2♠ opening.I don't know where I am heading with this comment, but it needed to be said. :)

[TylerE]

I also double vs 1S for what it's worth.

 

I think I do too, but it's much closer. Like maybe X=10 1NT=7

[P_Marlowe]

And to complete the NT latter - I would also bid 3NT over 3S.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[eagles123]

ok thanks everyone and P_Marlowe, I just put up the hands I struggle with or was unsure with, I apologise if i'm repeating s similar issue from before, but it's never intentional.

 

thanks,

 

Eagles

[P_Marlowe]

ok thanks everyone and P_Marlowe, I just put up the hands I struggle with or was unsure with, I apologise if i'm repeating s similar issue from before, but it's never intentional.

 

thanks,

 

Eagles

This is ok, we are in the right forum. (Thats why my answer "this was discussed before" was terrible.)

 

In the end I think, the generic question is given the hand pattern, what to do over a 1S / 2S / 3S

opening bid by the opponents. And you will get different answers.

 

For me this is simple: I will react to a preempt opening in the same way, I would react to a 1 level

opening bid. Maybe strengthen the req. for simple overcalls a little bit. But thats it for me.

 

If you look at the answers, you will see, that those who go with a T/O after 2S, would also make a T/O

over 1S, they may think it closer over 1S, but they still lean toward this decision.

In short, they follow the same rule, only that their decision over 1S is different than the one I would

take.

 

Add a 4th heart to the hand, removing a minor card, you may get answers, that will make a NT over call

and a T/O depending on the level, ... I would not, but I am boring, but the 4th heart makes T/O a lot

more attractive.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: Hopefully this mail compensates enough for the original short cut answer by me. And keep in mind,

it is not important which decision you take, as long as you understand the pros and cons of the decision.

[gszes]

If you do not use lebensohld (LEB) learn it and at the very least use it over the opps

weak 2 bids (it can be used in many other situations). This hand appears to be close

between 2n and x and x clearly stands out but not for the most obvious of reasons.

 

Would you normally be willing to open 1n with your hand knowing one of the opps had

a probable 6 card suit and that the suit would be led??? Your answer should be no with

this particular hand because your Kx is a non control stopper ie the opps can let you win it

at their disgression and keep communications open if necessary. Change your Kx to Axx

and you have a completely different story at least you can hope to isolate the long suit

from their partner by ducking the ace and hopefully take any finesses away from the hand

with the long suit ready to run. The difference of merely changing Kx to Axx makes a 2n

bid a much better choice than x.

[the hog]

This is a x. It is not a 2NT bi which is a very poor bid imo.

[spadebaby]

I am surprised no one said 4s. If partner has 6 and I have 2, there is the Golden Fit

in a major. I have 15 points and he has 8. But with the off distribution....I think I would chance it

[StevenG]

There seem to be significant differences between the attitude of English club players to opening weak twos and that of Americans. Ours are much less likely to be sound. I suspect that means that pass is a more attractive proposition for us. Perhaps 2NT is also more attractive. If contemplating a pass, and worrying about missing something, it's probably best to take into account partner's aggressiveness when in protective seat.

[gwnn]

I am surprised no one said 4s. If partner has 6 and I have 2, there is the Golden Fit

in a major. I have 15 points and he has 8. But with the off distribution....I think I would chance it

Our opponent bid 2♠ (that's why we are thinking of doubling it).

[diana_eva]

Our opponent bid 2♠ (that's why we are thinking of doubling it).

 

multiple tabs issue - s/he meant to reply to another discussion

[SimonFa]

Matchpoints [hv=pc=n&n=sk9ht92dakq8cqj95&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=2s]133|200[/hv]

 

is it worth bidding with this type of hand or is pass more sensible? I chose 2N at the table but considered it quite risky!

 

thanks

 

Eagles

 

The way I see it is that bidding 2NT I am likely to be either left in it or raised to 3NT as this is MPs. Unless partner has a stop in Spades I won't have time to set up a second suit so I will have to take 8 or 9 tricks off the top because I can't break communications by ducking. So I need partner to have something like ♣AKx and ♥A or K just in case LHO has long Hearts. That's more than half the outstanding points if RHO has 8 HCP. If we belong in NT partner will bid it with a good stop so a lead from RHO won't be a disaster.

 

Anyway, playing 4-3 fits at game is good practice and far batter than watching opps make 5 or 6 tricks before we've had chance to set up our winners.