Is Gazzilli a psych control?

[nige1]

You play 2/1 with Gazzilli. After three passes, partner opens 1♠, RHO passes. and you hold something like

1. ♠ x ♥ J x x x ♦ x x x ♣ K x x x x or
2. [sP} x ♥ x x x ♦ x x x ♣ J x x x x x

Is it OK to bid 1N, intending to pass partner's almost certain 2♣ rebid?

This query arose in the Scottish Camrose trials.

[glen]

You play 2/1 with Gazzilli. After three passes, partner opens 1♠, RHO passes. and you hold something like

1. ♠ x ♥ J x x x ♦ x x x ♣ K x x x x or
2. [sP} x ♥ x x x ♦ x x x ♣ J x x x x x x

Is it OK to bid 1N ...

Yes, it is okay to bid 1NT in an attempt to improve the contract. On the first hand if you pass opener's 2♣ rebid you could be cold for 4♥

[mr1303]

Neither of these would be a psyche, playing 2/1. 1NT just denies the values for a game forcing 2/1. It doesn't SHOW anything in particular. Likewise, the 2C response just shows a strong hand.

[aguahombre]

The question involves definition of terms. No matter whether 1NT is natural, semi-forcing (alert or announce), forcing (alert or announce) , or specifically demanding 2C (alertable), it is not a "psych control". The bid might be a psych, in that it grossly overstates values.....the tendency to do that should be disclosed as part of the alert if 1NT specifically requires a 2C bid.

 

But a psych control is a continuation bid which is wholly or in part designed to allow for the psych, not the psych itself. Gazzilli has no such properties, because it is only used after certain value opening bids. However, if opener rebids 2C with a hand inappropriate for the convention he could be using a CPU or fielding a psych and using 2C as a psych control.

 

So, the prohibitions on psychic controls do not apply to the 1NT response itself, judging that Opener must have the values for Gazzilli.

 

A related situation would be using transfers over 1MX:

 

1S (X) 1NT ---1NT alerted and explained as showing long clubs with zero to 12 HCP. This isn't even a psych if it actually has the zero-count with long clubs, and a 2C rebid is not a psych control.

[awm]

There are a lot of methods you can play where partner makes a particular cheap bid on all or most good hands. The existence of such an agreement isn't a psychic control. Some example methods would be:

 

1. Precision 2♣, where almost all good responder hands bid 2♦ relay.

2. Two-way stayman to weak notrump, where almost all good hands bid 2♦ GF stayman.

3. Responses to strong 2♣ where all good hands bid 2♦ and other bids are paradox-style negatives.

4. The "original" drury where all max passed hands respond 2♣ to a third-seat opening.

 

None of these qualify as psychic controls, and the fact that you have such an agreement doesn't forbid psyching. The problem case for "psychic controls" is where you have a call (other than pass) which specifically announces that you do not have what was promised by your previous bids. Some examples:

 

1. 2M rebid after 2♣ drury which denies as many as 8 hcp and absolutely bars partner from continuing.

2. A 2NT response to 1M opening which promises 22+ hcp, but opposite which opener's 3NT rebid shows 0-4 hcp and is to play.

3. After a 1NT opening, 2♦ response shows 5+ hearts, but a 3♦ continuation after opener's 2♥ acceptance requires opener to pass regardless of red suit lengths.

4. A 2♥ opening which is a natural weak two, with the agreement that any subsequent spade rebid by opener is absolutely to play regardless of responder's relative major suit lengths.

 

Note that each of these might be legal with proper disclosure of the original bid (although number 2 and 4 in particular are illegal agreements in many places). The problem is that in some follow-up auction you have a way to "show" the psych and prevent partner from taking actions that would be "obvious" under the original definition of your previous call. Effectively this is evidence of a concealed partnership understanding (CPU), made clear by the existence of the follow-up method.

[aguahombre]

There is a difference between a controlled psych and a psych control. The mostly legal controlled psychs are where we make a bid which doesn't invite partner to further participate in the auction (nail us) and it is not a convention. The illegal psychic controls are primarily conventions which can be used to uncover a psych by partner ---and are extended for that very purpose (used with atypical strengths and patterns to accomodate the psych).