Please comment on bidding

[MinorKid]

[hv=pc=n&s=shak5432dk532ca32&n=s752hq76daqjtck54&d=s&v=n&b=15&a=1h(Precision%2011%7E15%205-card%20Major)p1n(Forcing%201NT)p2dp4d(slam)p5n(GSF)p7dppp]266|200[/hv]

 

 

Match point. It's Strange that East or West didn't bid Clubs or Spades.

Playing 2/1 GF, the bidding was simple, the contract is cold for 3-2 trump break, but the bidding may have overlooked things. Please comment.

On top of that a player said that north should have bid 2♦ over 1♥ forcing to game as East may bid Clubs or Spades. Agree?

[chasetb]

7♦ is an excellent contract. Not only is it cold on any 3-2 break, it also works on any 4-1 break when Hearts break 3-1 or 2-2, all you need to do is ruff a Spade. I would always expect 5+ Diamonds on the auction 1♥-2♦ . I know that a lot of people don't like 1NT forcing, but it works like a charm on this hand. The only bid I don't really like is 5NT, it's a little aggressive.

[P_Marlowe]

4D is an overbid.

 

Even, if you know, that you have a 44 in diamonds, cant opener have an min. opening,

that makes 3H the last makebale spot?

Besides, you hide also the heart fit.

 

You could argue, that 4D showes the double fit, because you have the impossible 2S av.

to show a good 3D raise, but even than forcing to game with this hand, assumes more

solid openers than I am used.

 

I also would say, that 5NT is an overbid, but this depends a lot on the hand types in

the 1NT response. If 1NT could contain gf hands, than 5NT may be ok, although I still

dont know, how you will feel in a grand slam, if North showes up with lots of wastage

in spade.

 

But before I am going to discuss 5NT, I am discussing 1NT / 4D.

 

You reached a makebale grand, be happy.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[mike777]

strongly disagree 4d is not a huge overbid.

 

agree 5d is forced and can go down.

 

 

4d=tiny overbid but yes. tiny

[P_Marlowe]

strongly disagree 4d is not a huge overbid.

 

agree 5d is forced and can go down.

 

 

4d=tiny overbid but yes. tiny

An add. problem with the 4D bid, is also the scoring method.

4D bypasses 3NT, and we happen to play MP.

Opener may have shown 54, but may still be semibal., if I

want to go swinging I would rather think, I am trying 3NT, instead

of 5D.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[rhm]

An add. problem with the 4D bid, is also the scoring method.

4D bypasses 3NT, and we happen to play MP.

Opener may have shown 54, but may still be semibal., if I

want to go swinging I would rather think, I am trying 3NT, instead

of 5D.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

I do not think that any red blooded Bridge player would want to stop below game with the North hand once partner opened 1♥ and rebid 2♦.

It also looks to me remote that 3NT will be the right place after opener's rebid even at MP.

The only problem I have with 4♦ is that it might hint at ♥ support, but not at such good one.

It was certainly successful.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[mike777]

agree at mp this hand is tough and we may miss minor suit slam.

afte 2d agree strong we may miss slam and play 4h.

 

 

in any case I will miss 6/7d often

[the_clown]

I would have bid 2♠ over 2♦. 4♦ takes too much space away + I can certainly see how we may get to 5♦ down when 4♥ is cold.

Give opener Kx AJxxx Kxxx Qx which is a 13 count and 5♦ is awful. Now you caught partner with a 15 count, 6-4, 6 controls and void opposite your xxx which makes 4♦ look like a really good bid.

 

My auction would go (optimistically)like

 

1♥-1N

2♦-2♠

4♠-5♣

5N-7♦

 

N may decide to RKCB after 4♠ in which case S would respond 6♣ -odd with void and there is no space to find out about ♥K. North could still speculate and bid 7, but it would be wrong e.g. opposite - AJxxx Kxxxx AQx which is perfectrly consistent with souths bidding.

[cherdano]

I am going to disagree with everyone who posted so far. 4D is AWFUL! After 2♦, the likely contract is still game, not slam, and at matchpoints, it will be a disaster to play 5♦ instead of 4♥. Opposite many ordinary hands such as Ax KJxxx Kxxx Qx (make it a little stronger if you don't think this is an opening) we will get a bottom for no reason.

If you want to raise diamonds, just bid 2♠ so that you can show heart support later. I would just bid 4♥ though - yes, this doesn't show _that_ great diamond support, but I would rather do that than implying 5+ diamonds (which I would expect for 2♠-followed-by-4♥).

[mr1303]

The key to slam in either red suit is the lack of wastage in spades, which given the lack of opposition bidding, seems somewhat unlikely.

 

I agree that North should bid 2S after 2D, then follow up with heart support. I'm still happy if I get to 6H rather than 7D on these hands. It seems that opposition interference would help you get to 7D here

[Fluffy]

1♥-1NT (GF)

2♣-2♦ (max-relay)

2NT-3♣ (6-4min-relay)

3♥-3♠ (diamonds-relay)

4♦-4♠ (3♣-blackwood for hearts)

5♣-5♦ (3 keycards-♦K?)

5♠-7♦

 

Just why do they always give me fitless 3NT hands when I play with my precision partner?

[MrAce]

How can 4 ♦ be a good bid ? 1 NT is alerted as forcing, this makes me think 2 ♦ did not even promise a 4 card suit, unless they open weak NT with 5 card major. Plus everything else Arend (Cherdano) said.

[ArtK78]

There are a number of reasons why 4♦ is a terrible bid. One that is not being discussed much is that the 2♦ bid only promised 3 diamonds. North should have 5 very good diamonds (probably 6) for a 4♦ call, and probably no more than one heart.

 

I am not even sure that I would bid 2♠ with the North cards, as I intended to raise hearts initially. A 4♥ call makes sense, since it should show a 3 card limit raise that got better with the 2♦ rebid. I doubt that we will get to 7♦, but at least we will probably get to 6♥.

[Winstonm]

This doesn't make much sense to me. If one has a game-forcing hand with diamonds, wouldn't one bid 2D the first time? That leaves 4D in this sequence as highly invitational but less than game force - I would guess xxx, x, AQJxx, KJxx or some such. It pretty much has to define a hand where 3N would be quite problematic as a choice of contracts.

 

Given a 5/4 diamond fit and a 6-1 heart fit, I'm not so sure I like 7D. Getting to 6D ought to be a very good score (or imp gain, if such is the case).

[mikeh]

How many people think this auction actually happened?

 

Responder presumably evaluated, correctly imo, his hand as good limit raise: sterile shape, opposite a potentially light opener.

 

Now, when opener makes a bid that denies a maximum 5-5 red hand, and might be something like Kxx AJxxx Kxx xx, he re-evaluates to set diamonds as trump playing matchpoints????????

 

Gimme a break. Opposite the vast majority of opening hands consistent with the auction, committing to diamonds is insane, even if opener is 5-5!

 

If responder does have a slam try, which he doesn't, then opener's 5N is logical enough since responder should have a stiff heart (else why rule out a 6-2 heart game at mps), and at least 5 and usually 6 diamonds.

 

Axx x AQJxx Qxxx or the like is a problem, even tho I have given responder a full opening bid. So 5N isn't as idiotic as 4♦ but it certainly looks as if opener has a wire on the hand.

 

Put it this way: if any opps did this to me online, I'd note them as almost certainly cheating and wouldn't play against them again.

[gnasher]

Put it this way: if any opps did this to me online, I'd note them as almost certainly cheating and wouldn't play against them again.

If any opps were able to have this auction against you on this deal, your problems would be more fundamental than the honesty of the oppenents.

[MrAce]

Put it this way: if any opps did this to me online, I'd note them as almost certainly cheating and wouldn't play against them again.

 

This is a bit harsh imo. I mean...you see people in small community like BBF and what kind of odd replies they can come up with. When you play online, and you do not know them, the chances of encountering odd auctions and actions increases by a lot. Marking them as cheaters may not be the most accurate conclusion imo. But i know that you do not play vs pick up opponents online anyway (correct me if i am wrong) so that would rarely be a problem for you, if ever.

 

If this weird auction ended up being a loser, you would not think they cheated. Sometimes no sense auctions may end up winners. We all saw it.

 

 

I agree % 100 with everything else you said.

[mikeh]

This is a bit harsh imo. I mean...you see people in small community like BBF and what kind of odd replies they can come up with. When you play online, and you do not know them, the chances of encountering odd auctions and actions increases by a lot. Marking them as cheaters may not be the most accurate conclusion imo. But i know that you do not play vs pick up opponents online anyway (correct me if i am wrong) so that would rarely be a problem for you, if ever.

 

If this weird auction ended up being a loser, you would not think they cheated. Sometimes no sense auctions may end up winners. We all saw it.

 

 

I don't mind being fixed...and I am very aware of just how awful BBO is in general. When we were in Spain this Spring, my wife would get onto BBO late at night and play with random players/opps....she never understood why I insisted she not sign on as me:) Anyway, I'd look over her shoulder and sometimes provide advice on a bid or play....and what I saw made me shudder.

 

However, this auction is not attributable to nor would it ever be bid by a pickup pair. Not only are they playing precision, but they have the very specific, extraordinarily odd agreement that 4♦ was a slam try!!!

 

I don't care how many random players there are on BBO....the odds of any one player guessing that a pickup partner intended 4♦ as a slam try on the hand on which that pickup partner meant it as such are not much less than the odds of all of the oxygen molecules in my office ending up in the corner to my left, leaving me dying from lack of oxygen.

[MrAce]

Thats true, i overlooked at the precision part.

[jdeegan]

:P Looks to me like they your opponents were either lucky as Hell or possibly wired. Responder apparently intended to represent a shapeless strong game forcing ♥ raise and then got distracted by partner's forced 2♦ rebid and forgot to support ♥. Imo, you ought to get to 6♥ or 6♦ given the actual bidding system. Bidding the perfecto grand on what they/you know as so few HCP with so little info as to controls and trick taking potential just seems odd to me.

[MinorKid]

Yerp. WE haven't agreed on everything such as the bidding sequence after 1♥ 1N 2♦ 2♠* ?

I think north(my pard) thought south had 4+♦ (usually) so blast to 4♦

 

Strange for that board Opponent were Silent!!!!

 

Revised bidding

 

1♥ 1N (1N:Still Ok for this moment since we open on 11)

2♦ 2♠* (2♠: Minors, usually no fit for hearts.)

2N~ 3♦ (2N:Relay Bid) (3♦: Highly invitational raise with 4+ ♦)

3♠* 4♦ (3♠: Control, New suit means better prospect than simple game) (4♦: Deny ♣A)

4♥* 5♣* (4♥: Control, 5♣: King)

6♦

OR

5N 7♦

[1eyedjack]

I think that the world would be a better place if it took more than one hand to conclude that opponents were cheating. However outrageous that hand.

[Fluffy]

I saw my opponent blocking himself in dummy at trick one to be forced to play ace of trumps chasing my stiff King, that perhaps not enough, but on the same hand he rejected a (losing) finese for an overtrick, and went straight to run all winners hoping a star player discarded wrong. That was more than enough for me.