what should I do after 5 diamonds

[sceptic]

[hv=d=w&v=e&n=sqjhakjt82dakjtc4&w=s43h96d96532ckq63&e=st86hq74d87cj9852&s=sak9752h53dq4cat7]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 Pass  1♥    Pass  1♠

 Pass  3♦    Pass  3♠

 Pass  4NT   Pass  5♦

 Pass  7♠    Pass  Pass

 Pass  

 

couple of quick questions please.

 

1/. how would you bid this

 

2/. what would you bid after 5 diamonds

 

3/. how bad or good a call was 7 spades ( I was confident that my QJ were very good cards in this sequence and that grand stood a chance)

 

4/. what % is this slam

 

Thanks in anticipation of some interesting answers

[Free]

1) I'd also find it, but I'm used to play artificial systems, so posting it won't help...

 

2) Depends on what kind of blackwood or RKC you use... If you play 4130 and you know it's 3 keycards for sure, you don't need much extra info to bid grand.

 

3) I think it's quite right

 

4) % is quite high, but don't ask me exact numbers B)

 

I hope you didn't manage to go down on this hand ;)

[sceptic]

lol, no my p made it ;)

[han]

Seems like the perfect auction given the methods. Well done.

[arrows]

I like your auction because it is concise and entreprenant.

[mr1303]

Hmmm. How do you know partner doesn't have:

 

Txxxxx

Qx

Qx

KQx

 

 

You should bid 5 spades, and if partner bids 6 (he should do with 3, since it's the strong hand asking), you can now bid 7 quite happily.

[HeartA]

Hmmm. How do you know partner doesn't have:

 

Txxxxx

Qx

Qx

KQx

 

 

You should bid 5 spades, and if partner bids 6 (he should do with 3, since it's the strong hand asking), you can now bid 7 quite happily.

He then should bid 3H over 3D.

[fred]

Hmmm. How do you know partner doesn't have:

 

Txxxxx

Qx

Qx

KQx

 

 

You should bid 5 spades, and if partner bids 6 (he should do with 3, since it's the strong hand asking), you can now bid 7 quite happily.

I tend to agree with with mr103 (though I would have picked a slightly different example hand). 4NT in my view is too unilateral as partner may have a totally unsuitable hand for playing at the 5-level when 2 (or 3!) keycards are missing or for playing at the 6-level when only 1 keycard is missing.

 

If I trusted my partner's judgment, I would bid 4S at my 3rd opportunity with the opener's hand and leave the rest up to partner.

 

Remember, you have already shown a very big hand when you jump shifted and you really don't have much in reserve for that call (though I admit that partner's 3S rebid does improve your hand).

 

The 2 players who taught me the most about bidding were Eric Kokish and Joey Silver. I recall each of these 2 telling me interesting things about jump shifts (many years ago). These lessons stuck with me and they have served me well over the years:

 

Kokish: When opener jump shifts he must be able to control the auction regardless of what responder rebids. If opener is not prepared for his 3rd bid, he should not jump shift.

 

Another way of saying the same thing:

 

Silver: All bids are either statements or questions. A jump shift is a statement.

 

Once you start thinking about jump shifts in this way, the concept of responder taking a "false preference" to opener's first suit on hands like mr103's example has a lot of appeal - responder should stay out of opener's way and let him make his *prepared* 3rd bid - another *statement* that will complete the description of his hand. After that point opener gives up control of the auction to the responder.

 

New players are taught that opener should jump shift once his HCP total reaches some magic number (typically 18 or 19). All lot of players, including some very good ones, never learn that this is not the right way to think about such calls. The jump shift is not purely a statement of strength - it is also a statement of direction.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[Guest Jlall]

very nice post fred. Kokish is the man :)

[fred]

very nice post fred. Kokish is the man :)

Thanks Justin. Indeed EOK is brilliant. I was very lucky to have him around (and take an interest in me) when I was learning to play. You can become a very good card player by studying and practicing, but it is all but impossible to become a very good bidder unless you hang out with (and especially listen to) people who are already good bidders.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[Guest Jlall]

yes...cardplay is a science, bidding is an art :) That's why i think you see (at least in USA) more bidding problems than play problems.

[Fluffy]

You can solve the problem by bidding 5♠ after 5♦, partner is not gonna pass with 3 aces, but will with 0, then you raise to 7.

 

I hate to disagree with fred, but I beleive that hand has enough to look for keycards, I can barelly imagine a hand that goes down to 6 missing 1 key card, going down to 5 is easier though.

 

Of course partner can workit out, but AKJ10xx is way different form AQJxx and he will never know for sure.

[fred]

You can solve the problem by bidding 5♠ after 5♦, partner is not gonna pass with 3 aces, but will with 0, then you raise to 7.

 

I hate to disagree with fred, but I beleive that hand has enough to look for keycards, I can barelly imagine a hand that goes down to 6 missing 1 key card, going down to 5 is easier though.

 

Of course partner can workit out, but AKJ10xx is way different form AQJxx and he will never know for sure.

Fluffy,

 

Consider a hand like this:

 

Kxxxxx

x

xx

Axxx

 

If they lead a club you would need a miracle to make 6S. If you think this example is unfair, give yourself the 10 of spades. 6S is still a serious underdog if the defenders are consious.

 

Then there are the hands in which partner has only 5 spades, for example:

 

AKxxx

x

xx

xxxxx

 

On a bad day you might go down in 4S and 6S is truly a horrific contract.

 

Keep in mind that when opener raises to 4S (instead of taking control with RKCB) that does not have to end the auction. By bidding this way opener has done a good job of describing his hand. Responder can bid on if he can picture 12 tricks opposite such a hand.

 

I do not claim that you will always get to the right spot if opener's 3rd bid in 4S. Sometimes you will play in 4S when you belong in 4H. Sometimes you will miss a good slam or play in the wrong slam, but if partner's judgment is good you will almost never go down at the 5 level or reach a slam that has no play by bidding this way. Going down in a slam or (especially) a 5-level contract is a MUCH bigger disaster than missing a slam that makes (especially one in which the traditional HCP requirements are not there).

 

You shouldn't feel badly about disagreeing with me. I am sometimes completely wrong and, in judgment situations like this one, it is hard demonstrate right/wrong to begin with. However, in this case I think you should reread my previous 2 posts carefully. If you don't buy the part about the bidding theory that's your business, but pay close attention to the part about listening to good bidders if you want to become one yourself.

 

Absolutely no offense intended here - my definition of "good bidder" may be different from yours - to me there are no more than a hundred or so players in the world who fit into this category and I do not consider myself to be one of these (yet!)

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

Sorry I did not mention this before, but if you can't stomach bidding "only" 4S with this hand, you could try 4C. Among USA experts it is common to play this bid to be a "cuebid in support of spades".

 

Whether this hand is good enough to bid 4C is largely a partnership matter. A lot depends on how long/strong a suit 3S promises and this largely depends on just how false a false preference to 3H can be. Some players have no problem bidding rebidding 3H has responder with a small singleton. For them 3S would always be a long and strong suit. While I am a big believer in the false preference concept, I don't like to go this far (unless there is no alternative).

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[sceptic]

Hmmm. How do you know partner doesn't have:

 

Txxxxx

Qx

Qx

KQx

 

 

You should bid 5 spades, and if partner bids 6 (he should do with 3, since it's the strong hand asking), you can now bid 7 quite happily.

 

with this had why would you bid 3 spades, would preference for hearts not be a better bid given a poss misfit?

[Guest Jlall]

I agree that 4C would be a cuebid for spades, but i think it should probably include a third spade. 6-4-2-1's can be deceiving sometimes i think when the 2 card suit is trumps. I like the agreement that in auctions that are not preempted at all by the opps bidding (or yours) that new suits at the 4 level are not natural.

[mr1303]

OK give responder an extra spade and one less heart then.

 

The point was that partner can have 0 aces quite happily on this sequence, and as Fred said, there are hands with 1 or 2 key cards where the 5 level isn't safe