Running from 1NTx

[broze]

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1ndpp]133|100[/hv]

 

With what hand types (if any) do you escape as opener in this auction?

 

If it 'depends' on your runout methods, or scoring or vulnerability, say why.

[paulg]

I run with a six-card minor and redouble with a 5-card suit.

[mr1303]

I presume that you already have some sort of run-out here as responder.

 

In which case I nearly agree with Paul, except I redouble with the 6 card minor as well.

[Zelandakh]

Since my preferred runout method is Spelvic, the normal action here would be to redouble (pass forces XX). Bidding anything else is practically an admission of a psyche.

[bd71]

The answer depends almost entirely on what partner's pass means (and it should absolutely mean something).

 

Our agreements put the onus on responder to determine how we should react to the (presumably) penalty-oriented double, not opener. The pass in your auction would force a redouble and would show either a hand that wants to play 1NXX or has a good single-suit to show.

 

If you have different methods, then opener should go with those methods.

 

Your question is probably based on the idea that partner's pass suggests sitting for 1NX. If that's so, then I'm going to almost always trust partner unless I have an understength/off-shape NT opener like Kx Kx QTx KQJxxx, where I'll bid my suit.

[TylerE]

My preferred runout scheme

 

Immediate XX = Forces opener to bid cheapest 4 card suit, start of a scramble. Denies reasonable values

Pass = Forces XX, either a hand willing to sit or a bad hand with a 5 bagger, which will bid the suit after the XX

Other bids are Systems On, although values are limited to a soft invite at most.

[Vampyr]

The answer depends almost entirely on what partner's pass means (and it should absolutely mean something).

 

Not necessarily. If you assign a meaning to "pass" it often means that you have removed the possibility of playing in 1NTX.

 

In my partnerships "pass" means either balanced with nowhere to go, or content, and anyway not suitable for a redouble (which I usually play as strong and setting up a forcing pass).

 

So while it is reasonable to assign meanings for bidding and redoubling, it is best for "pass" to simply mean not suitable for either of those actions.

 

Note: I play weak NT, where you have the protection that if responder is very weak the opponents may well have a game on.

[ArtK78]

I play runouts over 1NTx. When partner does not run out, it usually means that he doesn't want to go anywhere (sometimes it means he is so weak and balanced that there is nowhere to go). So, if it goes 1NT - (x) - P - (P), I usually sit.

[ggwhiz]

I don't play anything other than responders immediate redouble starts a scramble and all systems are off. As the opener I might run to a 5+ card source of tricks which often becomes a lead director or dive suggestion against whatever they do next depending on the vul.

 

Playing 15-17 I can't remember anything worse than the occasional avg- score on these rare auctions.

[Zelandakh]

Playing 15-17 I can't remember anything worse than the occasional avg- score on these rare auctions.

The auction may be rare playing a strong NT but a couple of days ago we had our weak NT doubled 3 times in 12 hands. Results with Spelvic were +6, +1.5 and +0.3 and, although the opponents could certainly have done better, these results are not atypical of this auction against intermediate pairs.

[broze]

I run with a six-card minor and redouble with a 5-card suit.

 

Thanks Paul. What is the logic here? What if responder has a hand (7-8 HCP or something) that is happy to sit? And is your answer the same for a weak NT?

 

In which case I nearly agree with Paul, except I redouble with the 6 card minor as well.

 

Forcing p to bid 2♣? Does he sit the redouble with the 7-8 HCP hand?

 

 

Your question is probably based on the idea that partner's pass suggests sitting for 1NX. If that's so, then I'm going to almost always trust partner unless I have an understength/off-shape NT opener like Kx Kx QTx KQJxxx, where I'll bid my suit.

 

Well if partner's pass does suggest just that then of course it would be poor partnership etiquette to leave it in (unless as you say you are understrength). But couldn't it also it also be balanced with nowhere to go as Vampyr said?

[Zelandakh]

But couldn't it also it also be balanced with nowhere to go as Vampyr said?

There is always somewhere to go; it is just that it sometimes does not improve the result over 1NTX. In my version of Spelvic, 4333 hands are treated as having a club more than reality but then redouble if 2♣ comes back doubled. So 3334 is treated as a club one-suiter and redoubles; 4333 is treated as a black 2-suiter and bids 2♣; while both 3343 and 3433 pass initially and then bid 2♣ over partner's redouble (clubs and a red suit). In each case, any time 2♣ gets doubled it is expected for Responder to redouble completing the description of their hand.

[paulg]

I run with a six-card minor and redouble with a 5-card suit.

Thanks Paul. What is the logic here? What if responder has a hand (7-8 HCP or something) that is happy to sit? And is your answer the same for a weak NT?

The purpose of redoubling with a 5-card suit is that partner can run with a weak 4333 hand that otherwise would sit because of the lack of a fit; or sit if he thinks we have the balance of points.

 

I play the same when forced to play a weak notrump,