Skills Fini

[Ken16]

I lost. My campaign to make the definition of Novice, Beginner, and Intermediate more definitive has fallen on deaf ears. The purpose of my attempt was to encourage the lesser skilled to come on in and enjoy the very best, by far, online bridge location.

 

We must not forget that the majority of Bridge players do not participate in tournaments. They play socially or with small groups. They would not know a master point if they saw one. More and more of them are getting computers and learning about spots like BBO.

 

Everything possible should be done to make entrance into BBO as pleasant as possible. Much is done with training on BBO and that is commendable, but when a newcomer first starts to check on the players at a table, and sees that most of them show an overwhelming number of conventions, he/she is scared off. That is why I felt that BBO should put more emphasis on encouraging the learning of the use of conventions in the lower so called SKILLS LEVELS.

 

Obviously, even a novice player needs to know the principles of the game that are generally accepted by most players. The novice (and most of the rest of us as well) should take advantage of the wonderful

"Learning to Play Bridge" programs, developed and made available free of charge by Fred Gitleman.

 

On a personal level I have concluded that I am not eligible to participate in BBO because there is no skill level, as listed, for which I am qualified.

 

1. I have played for more than one year (does that mean on BBO or Bridge in general)? So I cannot be a BEGINNER.

 

2. I do not consider myself "comparable in skill to other members on BBO," so I do not qualify for INTERMEDIATE.

 

Well, there is always WORLD CLASS. Since I have never played with any of them, who are they to judge me. After the first hand my partner will probably say, "What in the World was that?" After the second they will probably say in unison "I wonder what World he comes from?"

[jillybean]

We must not forget that the majority of Bridge players do not participate in tournaments.

 

 

Everything possible should be done to make entrance into BBO as pleasant as possible. Much is done with training on BBO and that is commendable, but when a newcomer first starts to check on the players at a table, and sees that most of them show an overwhelming number of conventions, he/she is scared off. That is why I felt that BBO should put more emphasis on encouraging the learning of the use of conventions in the lower so called SKILLS LEVELS.

 

  1. I have played for more than one year (does that mean on BBO or Bridge in general)? So I cannot be a BEGINNER.

 

Not so online, a lot of people are playing tournaments or team matches. Tournaments are being run by the BIL for Beginners, Novice and Intermediates. Nothing at all to do with master points, all to do with a different, fun way to play and improve your bridge.

 

The majority if not all of the BIL teachers, mentors stress keeping things simple, learning the BASICS well and not amassing (rarely used) conventions.

New players will soon see the number of conventions listed on your profile does not equate to skill.

 

 

"1. I have played for more than one year (does that mean on BBO or Bridge in general)? So I cannot be a BEGINNER."

 

Where did this measure come from? Obviously a useless way to calculate ones skill level!

 

Jillybean2

[aisha759]

What's great about BBO is that you can change your skill level as you please :D

That doesnt mean you can jump from novice to world class (whatever world one comes from) :)

But one can be flexible between intermediate and advanced depending on the day:)))

You would have to be very consistent to be a novice/beginner or expert/world class....

Imo,I think most people know what level they are most comfortable in, and that is what the rating system on BBO is all about..

There plenty of experts out there who are very humble and use the advanced level, others over rate their skills..

I don't know where i'm going with this... :)

If the rating system on BBO intimidates knew comers, then they should try other sites where the lehman ratings is what counts to get a good game...

BBO is a friendly and social site and i have seen stars/world class, play with intermediates as partners.... when friendships are formed,the level becomes secondary... (at times:)))

Most tournament directors encourage players to have a good time during the match... and most of us come on line to pass the time, meet new people, from diverse backgrounds and nationalities.....

I think Ken, you have a point about encouraging the lesser skilled new comers.. and as jillybean mentioned there are plenty of opportunities offered to them on BBO to improve. So you have not lost, but you just got a long useless post reply from me :)) he he

Aisha

[TimG]

Everything possible should be done to make entrance into BBO as pleasant as possible.

 

On a personal level I have concluded that I am not eligible to participate in BBO because there is no skill level, as listed, for which I am qualified.

I'm confused. There is no requirement to display a skill level -- one can select "private". I would think any move to require a public skill level would tend to turn off people who are new to BBO (and teh bridge world). Rather than put more emphasis on skill level by defining it more precisely, shouldn't the move be away from paying much attention at all to skill level?

 

Tim

[TimG]

Much is done with training on BBO and that is commendable, but when a newcomer first starts to check on the players at a table, and sees that most of them show an overwhelming number of conventions, he/she is scared off. That is why I felt that BBO should put more emphasis on encouraging the learning of the use of conventions in the lower so called SKILLS LEVELS.

Quite to the contrary, there should probably be less emphasis on conventions at the lower skill levels. Some (perhaps lots) of lower skill level players list lots of conventions in their profile, but this does not make the use of these conventions a valid measure of skill.

 

It sounds to me that what you would like is a place where players can go to play with a minimal set of conventions. And, there already is. Put in your profile that you want to play very few conventions and then open a table. Someone of like mind will come to play with you. That's one of the greatthings about having 1000's of players online at any time.

 

Tim

[inquiry]

Ken

 

For the most part, the BBO is very novice/beginner/lstudent friendly (maybe you think we should add studnet/learner to lie between intermediate and beginner.. i suggested that long ago, but then we are all still learning, even Fred)). However, there are plenty of "rude" players who do not tolerate playing with people they deem to be worse than them, and are very abusive of beginner mistakes.

 

For this reason, some very bright people started a private club called "beginner/intermediate lounge". I know you heard about it. Any novice, beginner can go there and play in a hassle free environment. Those who deem themselves too good to play with beginners aren't invited in, and those who are intolerant of "stupid mistakes" quickly find there memberships to that private club revoked. It is a PERFECT environment for all newcomers to enjoy a hassle free place to sharpen their skills. Rather they play or kibitz, they are welcome to ask questions and get advice. Maureen (the manager of BIL) is my personal hero... go join that club today. Of course, they also offer free courses, frequent email newsletters, and beginner.intermediate tournnments, team matches, and special events like free play with a pro, thinking with fred, and others....

 

Ben

[aisha759]

I think Ken may be talking about those who first come onto BBO, and have no idea how they should rate themselves.... and he has a point, because there seems to be a fine line between beginner and intermediate.... otherwise there would'nt be a club which inlcudes both... just like the fine like between advanced and expert...

 

I used to belong to the BIL club, but was kicked out of it by the way.... not for being rude, but just for belonging to another club (best not to mention name) which in BIL's view only accepted adv./exp.players(which i am not!!) And many members percieved it as such. I can assure you there were plenty of intermediates in that club...(at the beginning)..

Now this post might be off track, but BIL decided I couldnt play there anymore, because i didnt belong in the Beg./int. category. I wasn't even warned.. one day i just couldnt enter, and had to ask for an explanation..."If one belongs to a club which is seen as having advanced players then they can't play in BIL"... I wish I could have taken that as a compliment. <_<

I was learning quite a lot in BIL , and their members were very helpful and friendly... they have a nice little community, and are all super polite.... it's a wonderful place for all, especially new comers who would like to meet people, and are not sure of their skill levels quite yet.

A question pops to mind though, where does a novice go? There are a few and they seem to be quite comfortable in the BBO invornment, such as playing in tournaments etc... but for those who really are not at ease, and first join BBO, what can they do?

Aisha

[hrothgar]

Hi Ken

 

Like everyone else, I wish nothing but the best for BBO... While I agree with your basic goals, I disgree with your proposed solution. I don't think that labels are particular important. Nor do I believe that posted sets of required conventions will lower the barrier to entry.

 

From my perspective, if BBO's management decides that they want to recruit large numbers of new bridge players, they best way is to ignore conventions altogether... Instead focus on declarer play, defense, and the "mechanics" of determining the best contract...

 

When I am teaching bridge to new players I use a modified version of a Dutch game called "Easy Bridge". We "Play" as follows:

 

4 players are each dealt 13 cards.

 

Each player announces the strength of their hand using the "standard" 4-3-2-1 High Card Point Scale.

 

The "side" with the lowest HCP will defend...

The player with the highest HCP will declare...

 

Play is started by tabling dummy.

Declarer then determines what contract he wishes to play, chosing between:

 

1NT

2 of a major

3 of a minor

3NT

4M

5m

Any slam

Any grand slam

 

At this point in time, play commences as normal...

 

I beleive that adding this type of functionality to the BBO code base would be a much better use of resources.

[mpefritz]

Hi Ken:

 

Several comments:

 

1) As has been told to you many times, conventions do not equal ability. Conventions, for the most part, do not exist by themselves. They exist as part of a broader scheme of bidding. Even the most basic of cards on BBO, called BBO Basic has both takeout and negative doubles, weak 2s, weak jump overcalls, Jacoby transfers, Michael's cuebids, 5-card majors, limit raises, and Jacoby 2NT. It also has non-natural interference to opponents 1NT opener. Many of these "conventions" are not well known by the social player. "25 Bridge Conventions You Should Know" is a great place for these players to start for learning these conventions. better is to play play play in the BIL. Also note that some the conventions listed above are for the SAYC based system. Some of these do not transfer over to other country's basic systems. So convention only criteria for skill or player level makes no sense in this multinational setting.

 

2) The large majority (at least 95%) of the social players are not very good when playing duplicate. They may have played for years and years without ever really having to compare their play with that of other (skilled) players. However, bridge has enough of a luck element that mistakes are never found or known to exist. On BBO you can look at how all the other tables bid and played.

 

3) Most players new to duplicate (in any form) should probably be called beginners, and novice if they haven't bridge played before. This will seem insulting to them at first. But trust me. It is very likely that they are at the beginner level.

 

4) Matchpoints and IMPs and rubber and chicago are completely different games with different tactics.

 

It sounds like you are a beginner (even if you played socially for 50 years -- unless you have been winning in high stakes games versus good players). The suggestions by fred on the levels are to be used as guidelines for choosing your skill level. For the record, here were the people logged in today aorund 1PM EST

 

519 Private

72 Novice

91 Beginner

598 Intermediate

1143 Advanced

780 Expert

49 World Class

 

28 STARS were online with all skill different levels chosen. If true, the average player (aka "intermediate") on BBO would be "advanced" ;) (Huh?!)

 

Encourage all your social playing friends to join the world of duplicate and go to the BIL. Have them get LTPB for free and, at the minumum, purchase a copy the Bridge Master series -- either the Audrey Grant or full blown version depending on card skills.

 

fritz

 

p.s. Do not take any of what I have written as me stating I am a great player. I know enough to know how little I really know. I am (self)labeled on BBO as advanced based on my club, sectional, and regional ACBL tournament results as in in the Rules of This Site.

[uday]

here are breakdowns from our database for nonyellow, nonstar people who have logged in at least once over the last 14 days

 

 

PRIVATE 28%

NOVICE 3%

BEGINNER 6%

INTERMEDIATE 27%

ADVANCED 37%

EXPERT 20%

WORLDCLASS 1%

[hallway]

Aisha - you know that was a compliment :) Being a member of <that other> Club only confirmed that all that talk of Super Accepts was knowledge you possessed/applied and not just showing off <_< . In those days it was accepted as recognition of above average playing skills to be invited to join <that other> Club and you were a fully fledged member B)

 

Ken - I have spent hours debating the choices of skill levels.

 

The BBO definitions are:

 

Novice - someone who recently learned to play

Beginner - who has played for less than a year

Intermediate - who is comparable to most other players on BBO

Advanced - who has consistently been successful in clubs and minor tournaments

Expert - who has enjoyed success in major national tournaments

World Class - who has represented their country in World Championships

 

The simple fact of the matter is that probably 95% of people (am I too harsh ;) ) joining BBO never read that let alone apply it when choosing a skill level. You Ken are one of the few. So people just choose whatever they feel comfortable with, applying their own view of what each means to them. Just so, do they list a bevy of conventions.

 

In the BIL I encourage members to list all the conventions they are learning to use. Reading up on them is a far cry from being able to use them appropriately and only by practising their use will they ever become proficient in their use. Showing rkc0314 on their profile gives their partner the confidence to 'have a go', on a good day the answer will take them where they should be , on a bad day ..... The important thing is that they will have learnt from the trying. As Fritz said all the Systems used by players from all over the world do make use of a variety of conventions. Knowing of/using them is not indicative of one's bridge playing skills. If one can't play the cards well.......

 

To help me in the management of the BIL I made up my own definitions - which apply only to and are used only by BIL members.

 

Except in an Honorary member capacity -I don't accept people who choose to call themselves Advanced, however, when they have admitted that was merely bravado they have been accepted as a Novice or Intermediate BUT those that apply telling me they are Intermediate but who I see with Advanced on their profiles (they lied!) I show them the door and make no apology for doing so. Whether or not they actually have the skill is not for me to decide, they have spoken.

 

The BIL definitions are:

 

Beginner - a newcomer to bridge , one who is learning the basic principles

Novice - one who has played bridge in the past but now needs to up skill for Internet bridge (e.g. playing duplicate/new conventions) to once again be competitive.

Intermediate - one who has a good understanding of the basic principles and is learning the modern conventions and those who are developing the skills to become an Advanced player.

 

The BIL members seem relatively happy with those. Please don't suggest any changes :blink:

[geofspa]

When I am teaching bridge to new players I use a modified version of a Dutch game called "Easy Bridge".

 

There is the ability at BBO to open a table using the option of "mini bridge" this is exactly the same as quoted "easy bridge"

 

Geof