ATB?

[eagles123]

E/W are both a bit old and senile especially West so their bidding could've meant just about anything

 

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sqt76542hk4dk8ca8&n=sk83ha52d74ckqt53&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=3dp3h3sppp]266|200[/hv]

 

should South just bid 4 or should North raise to game? or both :D

 

Thanks,

 

Eagles

[ahydra]

3S is fine, but North should raise to game in his sleep.

 

Note that over a pre-empt, you do not pre-empt yourself; thus jump bids, e.g. 4S instead of 3S by South here, should be strong - around 4 losers (e.g. ♠AKJ10xx ♥AQx ♦- ♣Kxxx).

 

ahydra

[Endymion77]

I can see South passing vulnerable but 3♠ is probably standard these days. North must've been looking at a different hand, all he needs is AQxxxx Kxx x Axx (a rather modest 3♠ overcall) and 6 is cold.

[billw55]

3S is fine, but North should raise to game in his sleep.

Agree. What does north expect partner to have for a 3-level overcall? Perhaps there was a past incident that damaged partnership trust, where south bid with nothing? Possibly Zelandakh operating at a club game? :lol:

[TylerE]

110% North. The north hand is almost a takeout X of 3♦, pass is completely unforgivable. Heck, if S has Ax instead of Kx of ♦, *6*♠ is not exactly terrible.

[aguahombre]

110% North. The north hand is almost a takeout X of 3♦, pass is completely unforgivable. Heck, if S has Ax instead of Kx of ♦, *6*♠ is not exactly terrible.

Yeh, it is. You would have to guess Whether clubs are 3-3 or opener has 8 diamonds without the spade Ace.

[wank]

north shouldn't bid 4s. his hand is too strong for that.

 

4♥ would be better.

[ahydra]

north shouldn't bid 4s. his hand is too strong for that.

 

4♥ would be better.

 

Why not 4♣?

 

ahydra

[wyman]

Would have dbled as north, and north definitely needs to make noise after 3S. The real problem for N-S is what 4-level call north should make after 3S; I am in the "after north passes in this auction, all of his advances contain support for partner" camp, but I understand that not all folks will be, so this is a matter of partnership understanding. I believe that my camp would bid (a clear) 4C.

 

edit: Eh, at MPs, I may content myself with 4S as north, especially if EW are known to be solid citizens.

[ArtK78]

Would have dbled as north, and north definitely needs to make noise after 3S. The real problem for N-S is what 4-level call north should make after 3S; I am in the "after north passes in this auction, all of his advances contain support for partner" camp, but I understand that not all folks will be, so this is a matter of partnership understanding. I believe that my camp would bid (a clear) 4C.

 

edit: Eh, at MPs, I may content myself with 4S as north, especially if EW are known to be solid citizens.

Sorry. Cannot agree with a double by North over 3♦. This hand is not quite good enough for a double. Others have lower standards for direct actions over preempts, but I like to have a sound double, and this doesn't make it.

 

Same honors but 4414, then I double.

 

As for the ultimate result, I agree with everyone that South should bid 3♠ and North should raise. Cue bid by North may be a little much, though.

[RSClyde]

I found the results of the poll pretty amusing.

[wyman]

Sorry. Cannot agree with a double by North over 3♦. This hand is not quite good enough for a double. Others have lower standards for direct actions over preempts, but I like to have a sound double, and this doesn't make it

You needn't apologize, of course. Our partnership agreements place the onus to double on the partner with shortness in the suit, so we stretch to get in there. This is close, id agree, but for me it falls into the dbl bucket.

 

Both styles are playable imo, with clear upsides and downsides.

[neilkaz]

North has a sound opening bid and 3 card support for what must be at least a 5 card ♠ suit. The 3 level overcall shows at least opening trick taking potential. A simple rule is that when you have a sound opener opposite another sound opener and a fit, make sure game is reached. North's pass makes one doubt whether he has a pulse.

[EricK]

I found the results of the poll pretty amusing.

Unanimous polls are very rare, but when I saw this question I thought there was a chance this could be one.

[johnu]

E/W are both a bit old and senile especially West so their bidding could've meant just about anything

 

I can only imagine what E/W think about N after the pass of 3♠ on this hand :P

[the hog]

In this forum North should obviously bid 4. Pass is unbelievable. In the Advanced forum, I would recommend a 4C bid -(fit showing).

[Winstonm]

Raise to 4S. Non-problem.

[Thiros]

Curious bidding.

 

North has quite a bit more than South expects him to have and so he should go.

[billw55]

Thiros, that may be a little strongly worded for the B-N forum.

 

This forum is for people new to bridge to ask questions in a friendly, zero-tolerance setting.

[Thiros]

Thiros, that may be a little strongly worded for the B-N forum.

 

 

 

My bad, I would never say that about a poster in here but thought you could be a little freer with characters mentioned in the third person. I'm fixing it.

[ahydra]

This thread needs to be preserved as BBO's first unanimous poll. 38 votes!

 

ahydra

[eagles123]

lol thank god I was south :D

 

I didn't think it would be quite this unanimous though as I didn't know about the never pre-empting over a pre-empt rule :)

[aguahombre]

lol thank god I was south :D

 

I didn't think it would be quite this unanimous though as I didn't know about the never pre-empting over a pre-empt rule :)

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "never". But, it certainly is a fine general principle.

 

However, there are exceptions. On:

 

1m (3H) for instance..3S is forcing, but 4S instead should look more like a preempt (AKJTXXX and out).

[mike777]

great hand for the novice section....a really great hand.

 

fwiw I think it would be much more informative to hear from North and what they thought and their process. My guess is most of these posters are not novices and don't understand the problem.

 

 

It reminds me of my algebra class, the teacher never understood the problem from the students perspective but he was bright enough to take step one: hold an after school session.

 

btw this is often my cripe about teachers.....they are on step 5 when we don't get step one. granted we students are often lazy also.

 

Kenberg somehow someway is truly the exception when it comes to talking about math on this site as are several stats posters.

[the hog]

great hand for the novice section....a really great hand.

 

fwiw I think it would be much more informative to hear from North and what they thought and their process. My guess is most of these posters are not novices and don't understand the problem.

 

 

It reminds me of my algebra class, the teacher never understood the problem from the students perspective but he was bright enough to take step one: hold an after school session.

 

btw this is often my cripe about teachers.....they are on step 5 when we don't get step one. granted we students are often lazy also.

 

Kenberg somehow someway is truly the exception when it comes to talking about math on this site as are several stats posters.

 

I don't understand your post, Mike? Why is this a great problem? The raise to 4 of the Major is so obvious that it is a non problem. Look at the first unanimous poll in the history of BBO.