surreal and more surreal

[Winstonm]

Speaking as a graduate of Princeton, I take offense. I am sure that we take our football games more seriously than your elected representatives will take your letter.

 

:)

 

Point conceded. B-)

[Winstonm]

Totally agree, and not only that, the TPRs (tea party republicans) have made multiple attempts to repeal the law by the proper means (legislation in Congress), all of which have failed. Basically they have lost; the law has been passed and confirmed by all our constitutional government processes. So now, they throw a big baby tantrum to try to get their way, obstructing everything, almost none of which is related to the issue they are pouting over.

 

I say, kudos to President Obama for refusing to negotiate with what has become, essentially, legislative terrorism.

 

I recently saw on CNN a quote from, I believe, New Yorker, that stated that the 80 members of the House who made up the tea party minority represented 18% of the U.S. population. Seems like gerrymandering is a loaded weapon passed out to children with which to play.

[ArtK78]

Breaking news from my local online news source: Steve Lonegan, who is running against Corey Booker for U.S. Senator from New Jersey in a special election three weeks from today, in a speech at a local hotel, praised Republican lawmakers for causing the shutdown of the US in an effort to get rid of Obamacare.

 

Not that I was voting for him anyway, but is there anyway I can vote against him more than once?

[blackshoe]

Breaking news from my local online news source: Steve Lonegan, who is running against Corey Booker for U.S. Senator from New Jersey in a special election three weeks from today, in a speech at a local hotel, praised Republican lawmakers for causing the shutdown of the US in an effort to get rid of Obamacare.

 

Not that I was voing for him anyway, but is there anyway I can vote against him more than once?

Not legally, but I'm sure if you consult with Chicago they'll have some suggestions.

[kenberg]

Breaking news from my local online news source: Steve Lonegan, who is running against Corey Booker for U.S. Senator from New Jersey in a special election three weeks from today, in a speech at a local hotel, praised Republican lawmakers for causing the shutdown of the US in an effort to get rid of Obamacare.

 

Not that I was voting for him anyway, but is there anyway I can vote against him more than once?

 

Addressing Steve Lonegan, I guess I would say that one of us has lost touch with reality and I don't think it's me. We shall see how this all plays out, maybe this is a winning move for Republicans, but I will be amazed. Not the first time, of course.

[akwoo]

I recently saw on CNN a quote from, I believe, New Yorker, that stated that the 80 members of the House who made up the tea party minority represented 18% of the U.S. population. Seems like gerrymandering is a loaded weapon passed out to children with which to play.

 

80 members of the House is 18.39% of the House. There is no gerrymandering at play in that statistic.

[Trinidad]

I must be missing something here. Can anyone explain to me how 80 Tea party members can convince 137 out of the remaining 152 Republican members (>90%) that it is a good idea to shut down the government?

 

Can anyone explain to me why this is seen as something that the Tea Party Republicans are doing when more than 90% of the other Republicans are doing the same?

 

Rik

[mike777]

I must be missing something here. Can anyone explain to me how 80 Tea party members can convince 137 out of the remaining 152 Republican members (>90%) that it is a good idea to shut down the government?

 

Can anyone explain to me why this is seen as something that the Tea Party Republicans are doing when more than 90% of the other Republicans are doing the same?

 

Rik

 

 

my guess and only a guess is the government is not shut down......some one rules..

 

 

idiots think the govt is shut down....but it aint.

billions and billions are still spent ...not sent back to taxpayers..you will not get a check in the mail....

 

 

guys you will see stories that govt does not spend 60 billion etc...but you get nothing I repeat nothing back.

-----------------

 

 

bottom line we ...you think if the govt is shut down we get a check in the mail

 

I back.....

 

I understand ....where is my money.......I want my money

 

All the rest is bullshit

[ArtK78]

my guess and only a guess is the government is not shut down......some one rules..

 

 

idiots think the govt is shut down....but it aint.

 

Ha.

 

Tell that to my friends who work for the government who are sitting at home today because they were furloughed.

 

There was a comedy album in the 70's at a time when the US economy was particularly bad (worse than now). One skit on the record (remember records?) was "The United States is having a Going Out of Business Sale!" Perhaps we should reconsider that option.

[PassedOut]

Ha.

 

Tell that to my friends who work for the government who are sitting at home today because they were furloughed.

And folks who work for the government are customers of those of us who have businesses. Congress needs to stop being destructive and go back to being merely useless.

[Winstonm]

my guess and only a guess is the government is not shut down......some one rules..

 

 

idiots think the govt is shut down....but it aint.

billions and billions are still spent ...not sent back to taxpayers..you will not get a check in the mail....

 

 

guys you will see stories that govt does not spend 60 billion etc...but you get nothing I repeat nothing back.

-----------------

 

 

bottom line we ...you think if the govt is shut down we get a check in the mail

 

I back.....

 

I understand ....where is my money.......I want my money

 

All the rest is bullshit

 

The taxmoney collected and government borrowing is poured back into the economy as government spending. That is estimated to be a loss to the economy of $300,000,000 per day because of this impasse. Crippling the economy reduces the amount of money that can be earned by working and selling goods and services, i.e., by profits.

[barmar]

Some congresscritter or pundit referred to Obamacare as "the worst law ever enacted by man". So they're claiming that it's worse than Jim Crow, the Inquisition, and the laws in Nazi Germany that sent 6 million Jews to the gas chamber. Genocide is better than giving everyone affordable health care!

[kenberg]

I back.....

I understand ....where is my money.......I want my money

All the rest is bullshit

 

Well, that's certainly straightforward enough. I read that 97% of NASA employees are furloughed, I suppose that they also want their money. I, of course, also want my money. But I am not quite up to saying that everything else is bullshit. A functioning government would be good. Stability would be good.

 

 

You want your money, everything else is bullshit. The Tea Party wants to kill the ACA, everything else is bullshit. I am hoping we can do better.

[Winstonm]

Mike's post hits at the heart of the enigma for me - how can otherwise intelligent folks hold on so desperately to ideology that flies in the face of facts, data, evidence, and history?

 

I am growing more strongly aligned with the faction that adheres to the idea that belief systems lacking objective verification or objective evidence are the root of interpersonal human problems. Regardless if the belief system is Reaganomics, Statism, Islam, or Christianity, the end result is to create a schism between A) the followers, and B) the non-followers.

 

When those small, narrow-minded groups of believers and followers gain power, the end result is predictable: conflict. Eliminate the underlying cause of the conflict, and at least one reason for human conflict is eliminated, though others remain.

[ArtK78]

One day, probably not in the too distant future, Obamacare (although it will not be referred to in that manner) will be viewed in the same way that social security and medicare are viewed today - absolute necessities.

 

Social Security dates from the Franklin Roosevelt administration, and Medicare dates from the Lyndon Johnson administration. This is not ancient history.

[Winstonm]

Republican quote of the day:

 

"We're not going to be disrespected," Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-Ind.) told The Washington Examiner. "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

 

But I will continue to hold my breath until I turn blue. :blink:

[ArtK78]

Someone is going to have to inform Mr. Stutzman that respect is earned, not granted.

 

By the way, I looked up the Washington Examiner. From what I see, it is essentially the Washington local equivalent of Fox News.

[c_corgi]

...

I am growing more strongly aligned with the faction that adheres to the idea that belief systems lacking objective verification or objective evidence are the root of interpersonal human problems. Regardless if the belief system is Reaganomics, Statism, Islam, or Christianity, the end result is to create a schism between A) the followers, and B) the non-followers.

 

When those small, narrow-minded groups of believers and followers gain power, the end result is predictable: conflict. Eliminate the underlying cause of the conflict, and at least one reason for human conflict is eliminated, though others remain.

 

The underlying cause is people who want to manipulate or exploit others for their own benefit. Belief systems that lack objective verification have proved a powerful and malleable tool for such people, but eliminating them will not address the underlying cause, it will just mean that different tools are favoured.

[Winstonm]

The underlying cause is people who want to manipulate or exploit others for their own benefit. Belief systems that lack objective verification have proved a powerful and malleable tool for such people, but eliminating them will not address the underlying cause, it will just mean that different tools are favoured.

 

It will not eliminate all underlying causes - just one of them.

[y66]

I must be missing something here. Can anyone explain to me how 80 Tea party members can convince 137 out of the remaining 152 Republican members (>90%) that it is a good idea to shut down the government?

 

Can anyone explain to me why this is seen as something that the Tea Party Republicans are doing when more than 90% of the other Republicans are doing the same?

 

Rik

 

K-O-C-H I-N-D-U-$-T-R-I-E-$

[y66]

Inane post deleted.

[blackshoe]

One day, probably not in the too distant future, Obamacare (although it will not be referred to in that manner) will be viewed in the same way that social security and medicare are viewed today - absolute necessities.

 

Social Security dates from the Franklin Roosevelt administration, and Medicare dates from the Lyndon Johnson administration. This is not ancient history.

Yes, and the people who view those things in that way are wrong.

[mycroft]

I must be missing something here. Can anyone explain to me how 80 Tea party members can convince 137 out of the remaining 152 Republican members (>90%) that it is a good idea to shut down the government?

So, *this* is where the gerrymandering comes in. Because of the way that the congressional districts have been carved up (and both sides are responsible for this (in different places), because neither side actually *wants* a contested election - but there's several million votes pointing out that the Rs have been more successful in the game for these 10 years), effectively, you can't lose the 2014 election, no matter what your electorate think, unless you're a total dumbass and show it in public. Given the way the media has been trained to treat politics, that effectively means cheating on your wife, or using prostitutes when being a "hard on vice" candidate, or twittering Mr. Danger to unsuspecting female interns. I.e. dumb things, but nothing to do with politics.

 

You can, however, lose your party's primary. And the electorate in general don't vote in the primary - only your side, and primarily the hard core on your side (I'm handwaving like mad lots and lots of niggling details, and every state's primary rules are different, and...) And it's been made quite clear that you, the Republican representative for district N, don't have to put on your tricorn hat and fife and drum, in public or otherwise; but if you break ranks with those that do, there will be a Tea Party challenger in your primary next year, and, because there are very deep pockets that miss the robber baron, company town days, that challenge will be WELL funded, and you could easily lose.

 

Add to that the Republican policy in modern times of "disagree in private, belly up to the party line in the house", and this is what we get. In fact, the biggest problem from a Republican viewpoint is that the New Republicans refuse to hear the "in private" bit because they don't seem to think that breaking kayfabe means anything anymore.

 

Please note, I'm neither American nor right-wing enough to be a Democrat, and I can't actually read the R-biased news without my head exploding, so assume there's a fair bit of known and unknown bias in the above.

[ArtK78]

Please note, I'm neither American nor right-wing enough to be a Democrat, and I can't actually read the R-biased news without my head exploding, so assume there's a fair bit of known and unknown bias in the above.

I assume that you meant' "left-wing enough to be a Democrat" or, alternatively, "right-wing enough to be a Republican."

[Winstonm]

Yes, and the people who view those things in that way are wrong.

 

Well, we in the majority certainly appreciate that you have pointed out where we have gone wrong.