Mini No Trump

[PhilG007]

Many partnerships now play the so called "Mini No Trump" showing 10-12 points balanced non vul

Good idea or foolhardy(?)

[blackshoe]

I find it an interesting idea, and would like to try it some day, but not having done so, I can't answer the question.

[ArtK78]

Been playing it for 25 years. Terrible idea. :)

 

Seriously, it is very effective when ;you don't get too greedy.

[TylerE]

Works well for me, we play it 1st/2nd NV or =. Really need to be playing a strong club to make it work though.

[Cyberyeti]

Works well for me, we play it 1st/2nd NV or =. Really need to be playing a strong club to make it work though.

 

This or a system with 2+ card club and diamond with the balanced ranges split between them.

 

I used to play a 10-15 (later 11-16) NT 1st and 2nd which was a good laugh and got great results, but you need a lot of system to sort that out, something saner with a wide but smaller range allows you to play a more normal system alongside it.

[TylerE]

What did you use over that?

 

I guess you could use like a modified 2 way stayman?

 

e.g. 1N-2♣-foo-2N says go only if really max, and 1N-2♦ says go if not minimum, with a 3N rebid if opener is accepting the invite without a major.

[Cyberyeti]

What did you use over that?

 

4 card invitational or better red suit transfers (responses 3 2 point ranges without support then 3 with), 2♣ as the bucket bid with strange responses. X and 2N as different range Lebensohls.

[ArtK78]

I play it in a light opening standard structure NV 1st & 2nd seats. It works just fine.

[mikeh]

10-12 works well, tho I wouldn't advise doing it vulnerable.

 

However, there are both some issues to consider when implementing it, especially in a std type or 2/1 method and some problems that many users ignore.

 

The first is how to split your 1N and 2N rebids, when the 1N rebid starts at 13. We used to play 1x then 1N as 13-16 and with 17-19 we'd jump to 2N, and this is an uncomfortable range: 17 is weak for 2N, yet 13-17 for the rebid of 1N is unplayable...responder has to bid over 1N with say a good 8 count, or miss too many games.

 

The second type of problem is more subtle.

 

We found that we had a problem with our stronger 1N opening hands: we'd open 1 minor and partner would respond, say, 1♦ or 1♥ and rho would overcall 1M, getting the lead in. Our counterparts would go 1N 3N.

 

This wasn't frequent, but very expensive especially since in my 10-12 partnerships we were focused on imp play.

 

More common, tho again not very frequent: you are defending and have shown 8 or 9 hcp and declarer is looking for a missing Queen. He knows you don't have it because you passed as dealer in a 10-12 1N seat..and so on.

 

 

I loved playing it when it arose. I once went 1400 at the 2 level to win 1 against our teammates 1430, as one example. But it is important to recognize that, as with all treatments or conventions, there are lots of costs and many of them aren't directly from opening 1N, but, rather, from not opening it.

[GreenMan]

One advantage of mini NT in 1-2 seats is that if it goes Pass-Pass(-Pass) then you know partner is likely under 10 HCP, so you have a bit more information when judging whether to come in.

 

I play 2-way Stayman over the mini NT, since it's fairly simple, but other schemes work well.

[blackshoe]

This or a system with 2+ card club and diamond with the balanced ranges split between them.

I have no experience with mini-NT, as I said, but in Romex, if you play mini-NT, 1m opening are "normal" (at least 3, and any 12-18), and a 1NT rebid is 13-16, so you don't need split ranges.

 

In the Romex "two card" system (where you play Romex Vul at MPs or at anything but favorable at IMPs, and Romex Forcing Club (RFC) non-vul at MPs or at favorable at IMPs) you only play mini-NT when playing RFC, and again the 1NT rebid is 13-16.

 

In both cases responder has two way checkback (2♣ is invitational, 2♦ is GF) available, and opener's rebids over 2♣ will clarify both his strength and his distribution.

[awm]

I've played a lot of 10-12 NV and haven't been that impressed with the results. Mostly this is in the context of a strong club or diamond system, so I don't have the issues of dividing up the ranges that Mikeh describes. However there are still a lot of problems:

 

1. While we sometimes buy the auction by opening 1NT, we also lose a lot of auctions when opponents overcall 2M and we can't bid over it. Penalty doubles don't come up often when opener can be as light as 10-12, but playing takeout doubles you can get into a lot of trouble if 1NT opener is expected to balance when shape-appropriate (much more so than when opener has a stronger range).

2. If good opponents buy the contract, they are going to play nearly double dummy after the 10-12 opening. They will also play better after our pass.

3. Opening the stronger balanced hands with a cheaper bid is sometimes problematic. The one I've struggled with in particular is the hand with a five-card major and 14+ to 15 hcp. This is a better hand than the vast majority of our 1M openings (strong club remember, range is like 9+ to 15) and sometimes partner's single raise or 1NT response leaves me poorly placed. Upgrading to a strong club leaves me overboard. If I had opened a simple strong notrump on this hand there would be no issues. Similarly after a nebulous 1m, partner is not really going to play me for a dead-max 15 and I may need to back into some auctions where I'd prefer not to.

4. My RHO sometimes gets into the auction with a lead director over my strong notrump when he'd be forced to pass or make a riskier bid if I opened 1NT strong.

5. There is the chance of going for a number, usually -300, opposite no game.

 

Against weak opponents, the 10-12 is extremely effective because they often don't know how/when to get in and when to stay out, and they don't take full advantage of the negative inferences of "no 10-12 opening" in the play. But in stronger fields I'd rather stick to my strong notrumps (14-16 usually in a strong club context).

[CamHenry]

awm's point that the mini-NT performs better against weak opponents makes sense to me. I don't often play against particularly good pairs, so I can't speak from personal experience, but from being towards the top of a weak field:

- The 10-12 (or 9-11) is disastrous when vulnerable

- The inference that partner is weak when you're opening in 3rd means you can play a 9-15 NT in third seat, with natural takeout responses, and put a lot of pressure on 4th hand. This is like Cyberyeti's 10-15 NT, but without the difficulty of having to find constructive auctions.

- We play the mini in a strong minor system, so there's no risk of having to untangle our constructive 1NT rebids.

- I once had one oppo say to her partner "I'm sorry, they blinded me with science" - having passed out a mini-NT with an 18-count and missed the 3NT game.

[mrdct]

I've been playing a mini-NT for almost 3 years years and find it very effective. My range is 8-10 (which is quite high frequency) and I only play it 1st/2nd fav and 1st nil. You wind up with opponents missing game quite often because they usually lower the values for a penalty double and often just can't quite work out where they need to be due to the one-level being taken away. It's extremely rare to be caught for a penalty and more often than not when the opps decide to defend, it turns out to be a good save or no great disaster (-300 vs a making partscore I can cope with every once in a while). Do check your local regs though as the 8-10 range may not be legal in all places, but it's fine in Australia and in WBF events.

[gwnn]

Great post by awm. You can do it with a strong club with 10-12 in NV 1/2 (maybe also 3rd favourable but I don't like it) and 13-15 (or even 14-16) when V or 3/4. I don't think it works well in a standard system except maybe when you're favourable.

[Cyberyeti]

I have no experience with mini-NT, as I said, but in Romex, if you play mini-NT, 1m opening are "normal" (at least 3, and any 12-18), and a 1NT rebid is 13-16, so you don't need split ranges.

 

In the Romex "two card" system (where you play Romex Vul at MPs or at anything but favorable at IMPs, and Romex Forcing Club (RFC) non-vul at MPs or at favorable at IMPs) you only play mini-NT when playing RFC, and again the 1NT rebid is 13-16.

 

In both cases responder has two way checkback (2♣ is invitational, 2♦ is GF) available, and opener's rebids over 2♣ will clarify both his strength and his distribution.

This is fair comment, Mexican 2♦ would also solve this problem.

[nigel_k]

A simpler way is to open 1NT with 10-13 and rebid 1NT with 14-17. The four point range isn't ideal but I like it better than opening 1♦ on a doubleton or having a five point 1NT range somewhere.

[mrdct]

In my structure, which includes a short club opening with transfers, when I'm in the mini position (1st/2nd fav or 1st nil) with 11-14 balanced I open 1♣ and accept the transfer, rebid 1NT with 15-17 balanced and in the event that it goes 1♣:1♠ (no major) I use 2♦ as an artificial 15-17 balanced and have a structure to sort it out from there.

[ArtK78]

The comment was made that 10-12 1NT openings work well against weak opponents.

 

Anything works well against weak opponents, so that comment really doesn't add anything.

 

I have found, with many years of experience using the 10-12 1NT opening, that it works well against strong opponents.

 

Sure, there are problems that you don't face with a strong NT opening. But that is true in any system where you play something different. There are problems with opening a strong club, there are problems with using Multi, and so on. I find that the benefits far outweigh the problems.

[mcphee]

I am not so sure that "many" partnerships now employ mini NT. I believe meckwell tried it and dumped it. I know some pairs who do use it with success. My time with it was no blessing scoring 65% or 45 % depending on how the wind blew.

[barmar]

The comment was made that 10-12 1NT openings work well against weak opponents.

 

Anything works well against weak opponents, so that comment really doesn't add anything.

True, but some things work especially well against them.

 

Maybe it's intermediate players, who think they're good, that are most screwed up by it. They know that in general you should balance aggressively, but haven't yet learned that this can be extremely dangerous over mini1NT-P-P because responder can pass with many good hands.

[ArtK78]

True, but some things work especially well against them.

 

Maybe it's intermediate players, who think they're good, that are most screwed up by it. They know that in general you should balance aggressively, but haven't yet learned that this can be extremely dangerous over mini1NT-P-P because responder can pass with many good hands.

As I mentioned earlier, I have been using the 10-12 1NT for about 25 years. There was an event quite some time ago where it (and everything else) worked extremely well, especially against the top pairs.

 

I was playing in a Flight "A" pair event on a Saturday at a regional in Cherry Hill, NJ. This was before there were 20 events being conducted simultaneously, so all of the top players were in the event.

 

At the end of the afternoon session, my partner and I scored about 90% on the last 6 boards to bring us back to slightly above average. A recap sheet was posted listing the top 60 pairs in event after the afternoon session. We did not make the list.

 

In the evening session, everything we did worked, and our opponents were making mistake after mistake. We had numerous opportunities to open the 10-12 1NT, and every time that we did, we either stole the board or our opponents got themselves into trouble. This was especially true of the top pairs in the event that we faced in the evening session.

 

On the last board of the evening session, our opps bid up to 7NT which required a guess for a queen in an eight card fit. Needless to say, declarer got it wrong. Shortly after the round was over, but before the results were posted, the DIC looked up at us and said "Congratulations!" We had scored about 74% for the evening session and won the event by over a board.

 

There have been a number of other situations where our mini NT has resulted in very good results, and a few where it did not. But, in my experience, it has been far more good than bad. And I will never forget that one session where everything worked out in our favor.

 

{By the way, that event was the middle event of 3 consecutive regional victories at that tournament - the morning KO, which ended Saturday morning, the Flight "A" pairs on Saturday, and the Flight "A" Swiss Teams on Sunday - three regional wins in a 36 hour time span).

[mycroft]

I play it in the context of a Precision system first 3 seats NV (and there are problems with that as well - where do you put your bad 16 balanced? What do you do when partner's shown good 16-19?), and yes, you give away on defence, whether you open 1NT or pass, as well as being able to use it by third-hand. You need to change your system opposite a passed hand to not have calls that cater to partner being 10-bad 12 balanced.

 

But I am impressed at how effective it is, even at A level, which around here means a couple of GrandLMs, a couple of 10K but no open win, a couple of open win but not 10K, and a few people who expect they can beat the above on a good day, as well as the normal strong players and point-accumulators. Sure, we lose to the best frequently, but we do that playing standard, too. At least if we give them different problems to the field, they may have no answer.

 

It's not for the faint of heart, and it's not for the players that won't work on their runouts, and it's not for the players who can't bull out a hopeless contract for the best possible result (sometimes it's a great result, if you don't panic!)

[TylerE]

I play it in the context of a Precision system first 3 seats NV (and there are problems with that as well - where do you put your bad 16 balanced? What do you do when partner's shown good 16-19?), and yes, you give away on defence, whether you open 1NT or pass, as well as being able to use it by third-hand. You need to change your system opposite a passed hand to not have calls that cater to partner being 10-bad 12 balanced.

 

Simple, we open all 16's 1♣, period. There is no such thing as a "Bad 16 opened 1♦".

 

We also make the sequences

 

1♣ - 1♠ (Balanced hand)

1NT (Semi-forced, denies extreme shape or extras) - stayman/transfer

response - 2NT show 8-9 and is NF. This provides an escape valve to stay out of game on bad 16 opp bad 8.

[fromageGB]

Years ago I played 10-12 for a few years at matchpoints in a standard 5 card major system, and it was not good. One reason, as mentioned, is that we had no way to avoid large range rebids of NT. However, there are downsides to having both 1♣ and 1♦ followed by 1NT as different ranges, because that impinges upon your otherwise useful meanings for these. Another reason was that it is too premptive, and when partner has a hand it gets in the way, preempting him.

 

Delighted to drop it in favour of a 15/16 1NT.