Pass or bid on after precision 2cl-opening?

[helene_t]

[hv=d=s&v=n&w=sqxxxhdqxxxcakxxx&e=sxhqjt9xxxdaxxcxx]266|100|Scoring: IMP

2♣-2♥

2♠-3♥

pass[/hv]

(Sorry I forgot the king of clubs in the initial post)

West said he was sorry he didn't pass my 2♥ bid. I (East) said it was ok since I might have a 5-card hearts.

 

Should West have opened 1♦? (Maybe 2♣ nonvulnerable and 1♦ vulnerable?)

Should East have passed 2♣?

Should West have passed 2♥?

Edited January 24, 2005 by helene_t

[inquiry]

I am a huge advocate of light opening bids. West's hand, however, does not come close to my "light" opening bids... even when playing precision (I will open occcassionaly 7 point hands when not playing in ACBL things, and do open a fair number of 8 and 9 point hands, but this hand?? Never).

 

West if he just has to open, should open 1♦. I actually am fond of the requirement for 2♣ opening bid showing fair six card suit when playing precison (I adapted to that after reading Power Precison).

 

As far as EAST's hand. I would bid 2♥ 100% of the time over 2♣.

 

Since you open this kind of hand 2♣ I suggest an examination of how your 2♣ opening bids have been working for you (average imps won/lost when you open 2♣, average MP score, how happy you are in your contracts. If the results are not what you hoped for, then maybe a re-evaluation of your requirements for a 2♣ opening bid are in order. Of course, if you are doing well with them, by all means keep them up.

 

Ben

[Free]

1) this depends on style. Ok, you have a nice hand, but is it worth an opening? I'd just pass the West hand...

 

2) Imo, East knows you're in a misfit situation, so he can pass 2♣. However, he has a nice 7 card ♥ and an outside Ace, so pass would be quite an underbid. 2♥ is fine.

 

3) West knows after the 2♥ bid that they're in a misfit situation as well, and it's better to stop soon than later. The fact that he has void suggests East is longer than just a 5 card. Even with a void, 6-0 fits are quite playable. I think pass would be better, if partner was interested in ♠ as well, he could've asked (no?).

[Chamaco]

I agree with Ben in the assessment of 2♣ opener.

 

The problem is the following.

While 1M precision openers can be done fairly light, 2♣ sequences are already awkward on their own: often responder has trouble evaluating the hand because there is little room to investigate the best partscore.

If responder never knows whether opener has a real opening, things can get crazy. (and while this happens with 1M openers, there are some bult-in mechanism to prevent disasters, especially since there is more bidding room)

 

Because of this, IMO, it is necessary to have strict rules for 2♣ openers: I play with pard that 1st/2nd seat 2♣ openers should have some redeeming features: if it is light, it must have a great ♣ suit to retreat to a safe 3♣.

Otherwise, it should at least conform to Bergen's rule of 20 with 2+ quick tricks.

 

(3rd seat things are a bit different, but, there too, I would not open the hand you posted even in 3rd seat)

[inquiry]

Ok.. Now that you have added three more points to WEST hand, I would open. But I would clearly open 1♦. With a plan to bid 1♠ over 1♥. After a 1♦ opening bid, you will rest peacefully in 2♥ contract via 1♦-2♥ all pass, or 1♦=1♥=1♠=2♥ all pass... or if you plan to ignore that monster spade suit, via 1♦-1♥-2♣-2♥ all pass.

 

I still like Sontag's 2♣ opening bid when playing precision, but of course, you have to willing to open 1♦ on a singleton to play it (or at least a doubleton...

 

Ben

[Chamaco]

With the K of ♣ added, I agree with the bidding of both sides.

After all, 3♥ is not a terrible spot (it is on the ♦K finesse), and both payers had reasons to keep the bidding open (opener did not like 2H and looked fr alternative partscore, responder could still have game prospects).

 

I would open 2♣ the hand, since if I open 1D, bidding will go

 

1D:1H

2C and now we have close to zero chance to find spades.

[arrows]

MHO

 

Maybe 2♣ is not an overbid, but one has to realize that it's awkward because

the high level and limited strength. Many play 2♣ promise 6 cards.

 

I found that with a void 3 suiter, it pays to underbid a little when things are not

clear.

 

if partner bid our suit, great, splinter to the moon.

if partner bid our void, great, what a penetrating vision we have! already

underbid in advance for the hand doesn't fit.

if partner bid NT, not bad, at least we can bid our 2nd suit.

 

Hence, open 1♦ is a good idea for this hand.

 

in practice, 2♥ is mandatory, pass is inconceivable.

pass 2♥ is very hard, but that's called discipline....

[Flame]

First i like Ben's 1d-1h-1s sequence better then opening 2c.

Now after opeining 2c i play 2h as NF weak constructive, over this 2h i think west should pass not because 2h is the best partscore but because its probebly the best contract we can reach, 2S over 2h should show a max 2c bid trying to reach game, we almost for sure dont have a spade fit, so this 2s will just get us to 3S/3H on more likely to 3nt with not enough strengh to make it.