Bid for both hands..

[han]

Dealer: Ax AQJxx x AKQxx

 

Partner: xxx Kx xxx 10xxxx

 

A friend of mine was talking about these two hands. White vs red at IMPs, both dealers opened 1H and both times this was passed out. How would you get to the slam.

 

(Suppose for this question that your strong opening is 2C)

[inquiry]

Dealer: Ax AQJxx x AKQxx

 

Partner: xxx Kx xxx 10xxxx

 

A friend of mine was talking about these two hands. White vs red at IMPs, both dealers opened 1H and both times this was passed out. How would you get to the slam.

 

(Suppose for this question that your strong opening is 2C)

See misho's transfer preempt thread.. funky transfer preempts

 

Dealer: Ax AQJxx x AKQxx

 

Partner: xxx Kx xxx 10xxxx

 

3♣ - 3♦

4♥ - 6♣

Pass

 

3♣ = diamond preempt, or strong two suiter with clubs and a major

3♦ = play in your weak suit

4♥ = monster two suiter, showing 2 to 3 losers,

6♣ = ok, ok, I would probably only bid 5♣, but I would think about six.

[the hog]

I must admit that playing a natural system I would open 1H.

[myfish]

opps didn't balance for you? :D

anyway,1♥ opening for me

[pclayton]

Just a real bad hand for standard.

 

My system: 2♦ - 2♥ - 3♥ - 3N - 4♣ - 5♣...I'm probably not getting to 6.

 

2♦: 0-3 losers

2♥: 0-1 controls

[Free]

Imo this is a GF hand. I only have 3 losers in most situations...

 

With some partners however, I'll bid this otherwise (transfer preempts) which makes things 'easier' (at least easier than after a 2♣ opening with heavy responses):

 

3♣ - 3♦

3♥ - 3♠

3NT - 4♣

4♥ - 4NT

5♦ - 6♣

 

3♣ = preempt ♦ or GF with 5+♥ and another 5+ card

3♦ = to play opposite a preempt

3♥ = 5+♥, 5+♣, GF

3♠ = RAB (Rest Asking Bid)

3NT = 2-5-1-5

4♣ = inverted control bidding: bid a suit where you have at least 2 losers

4♥ = maximum 1 loser in all suits (the bid 5 card suits always have max 1 loser)

4NT = RKC ♣ (4♠ would be RKC ♥)

5♦ = 4/1 keycards (so 4 <_< )

6♣ = always 1 loser in either sidesuit.

 

Ben, sorry to say but I don't think your bidding is realistic. Give partner xx-AQJxx-A-AKQxx and you'll probably get your killing ♠ lead.

[mila85]

2♣-2♦

2♥-?

 

I have 3 loosers I open 2♣.

2♦ is relay, almost any hand

2♥ natural

 

Now I have two possibilities.

2nt (negative) or 3♣ (natural).

 

...-2nt

3♣-4♣

4♦-4♥

???

or

...-3♣

4♣-4♥

???

 

over 3♣ I bid 4♣ with a fit. 4♦ and 4♥ are cue-bis.

When you know about club fit and heart king (we do not bid shorness to partner's suit) it's likely to bid 6♣...

[inquiry]

Imo this is a GF hand. I only have 3 losers in most situations...

 

With some partners however, I'll bid this otherwise (transfer preempts) which makes things 'easier' (at least easier than after a 2♣ opening with heavy responses):

 

3♣ - 3♦

3♥ - 3♠

3NT - 4♣

4♥ - 4NT

5♦ - 6♣

 

3♣ = preempt ♦ or GF with 5+♥ and another 5+ card

3♦ = to play opposite a preempt

3♥ = 5+♥, 5+♣, GF

3♠ = RAB (Rest Asking Bid)

3NT = 2-5-1-5

4♣ = inverted control bidding: bid a suit where you have at least 2 losers

4♥ = maximum 1 loser in all suits (the bid 5 card suits always have max 1 loser)

4NT = RKC ♣ (4♠ would be RKC ♥)

5♦ = 4/1 keycards (so 4 <_< )

6♣ = always 1 loser in either sidesuit.

 

Ben, sorry to say but I don't think your bidding is realistic. Give partner xx-AQJxx-A-AKQxx and you'll probably get your killing ♠ lead.

Well.. I did say "ok, ok, I would probably only bid 5♣, but I would think about six. "

 

I am new to this transfer preempt/strong two suiter thing, and I don't have any fancy follow up (cue-bidding is all I have). I would look at my hand, count 1 to 2 covercards (given my Kx might be two if partner is unlikely Axxxx in hearts) and just bid game. Misho and I have not settled on rather these transfer preempts are true game force, of if a 3♥ rebid can be passed yet.

 

Ben

[fred]

Conventional wisdom is that strong 2-suited hands are best opened at the 1-level, but with hearts and a minor you can afford to open 2C on these hands if you use the "Kokish relay" convention. Here is the simple version:

 

2C 2D

2H* 2S**

 

*=forces partner to bid 2S

**=forced

 

After that opener can bid 2NT to show a balanced game-force (ie not a hand with hearts). Any other bid is natural and heart showing. With the hand in question, opener's 3rd bid would be 3C to show clubs and hearts.

 

Not sure how the bidding "should" go after that, but this is definitely a good start toward getting to 6C.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[shanbari]

i play 2h relay after 2c opening, (similar to kokish 2h)

 

2c - 2d waiting

2h - 2s (2h relay to 2s)

3c - 4c (3c is showing both heart and club suit, could be 45/54/55 suiters),

. . .

 

well, 6c is not easy, but it's on the way now.

(matched what fred says <_< )

 

shan

[Fluffy]

I'd open 1♥ and conmgrat my opponents for not reopening.

[Winstonm]

Interesting to note that a variation of the "Kokish relay" system spoken of by Fred was/is a part of the Power Precision system devised by Sontag/Weichsel, only in theirs it was:

1C*-1D**

1H***-1S****

 

The 1C opener rebid 1NT with 20-21 else bid something else with real hearts.

 

As for the hand in question, I believe that 7 controls, 3 losers, and 20 HCP with shape and most cards working in the long suits is too good to open at the 1-level and opening 1H carries more risk of missing game/slam than a 2C opener does of getting unnecessarily high.

 

Also, note that with 1 more heart the responder could use forcing NT response and a preference to hearts to indicate 2 hearts or a weak hand - so overall, it is pretty unlucky to have 1 heart work out so poorly.

[bearmum]

Dealer: Ax AQJxx x AKQxx

 

Partner: xxx Kx xxx 10xxxx

 

A friend of mine was talking about these two hands. White vs red at IMPs, both dealers opened 1H and both times this was passed out. How would you get to the slam.

 

(Suppose for this question that your strong opening is 2C)

Because I play Precision I would be able to open 1♣ but still can't make game as pard will NOT bid over 1♥ and I don't have good enough suit to FORCE over 1♦ :lol:

 

 

 

BUT supposing the ONLY forcing bid I could make was 2♣ -{game force}

I don't have enoght to open 2♣ {same reason as Precision reasoning above}

 

 

SO I believe UNLESS playing a really esoteric system MOST will not find game here :P

[mr1303]

Why is this hand not strong enough to force to game? As little as 3 hearts to the 10 is enough to make game opposite this hand.

 

I open 2C if thats my strong opening without any problems. Equally I'll open 1C AND force to game if partner bids 1D (negative) if I play strong club

[aisha759]

Since I play 2♣ GF or 4 loser hand, that's what i would bid....

[NickToll]

I play a simple version of game-forcing 2♣ (mainly devised by Robert Sundby's "Bridge in the 80s"), where the sequence should be:

 

2♣ - 2♦

3♣ - 4♣

4♥ - 4NT

5♦ - 6♣

pass

 

2♦: no 5card major, any strength

3♣: 6card suit, or 5-5 with a major (2♥-then-clubs would be canapè)

4♣: fit, 1st or 2nd round control in at least one side-suit

4♥: asking in hearts

4NT: 2nd round control (probably the King, otherwise would have splintered over 3♣)

5♦: asking in diamonds

6♣: no control

 

I am aware that evaluating opener's hand as a game force is not the choice of everyone. IMHO here the risk of getting too high is limited: should partner be very weak, he would bid 3♥ at second round (artificial negative, 3♦ being natural positive) and opener would complete his sequence with 4♥, showing his 5-5 2suiter. If partner has three or even two hearts, 4♥ should have a play. If he is short in hearts, 5♣ could be a reasonable contract.

 

Open 1♥ is too great a risk...

[Guest Jlall]

a hand would be helpful

[inquiry]

BTW, not playing misho's transfer preempt thing, my bidding would go...

 

2♣ - 2♦

2♥ - 2NT

3♣ - 4♣

4♦ - 4♥

6♣ - Pass

 

The meaning of all of these bids are"

 

2♣ = one round force, can include 8 trick in major acol hand with 5 controls

2♦ = semi-postive or better, promise at least one trick for heart (or spade) contract

2♥ = one round force, since responder promised a trick, even with 8 trick hand in hearts, should be safe at three level

2NT = second negative, warns of only one likely trick. With two tricks for heart contract would force to game

3♣ = second suit, GF

4♣ = club raise

4♦ = cue bid

4♥ = cue bid, typically do not cue-bid singleton in partners first suit, but will cue-bid king or queen here...obvisously does not have Kxx or Qxx...

6♣ = no chance partner can have diamond ace or spade king, given the 2NT bid, but he would have bid 3♥ as warning without fair clubs.

 

This two club method I play I got from Chris Ryall, see his page describing his two club auctions at...

http://www.cavendish.demon.co.uk/bridge/two/clubs.htm

 

BTW, I think Chris's 2♣ treatment is quite nice and very effective. Anyone can easily adopt it to any 2/1 GF or Sayc structure. If you don't like his three suited roman 2♦ structure he grafted onto the 2♣ opening bid, openers 2NT rebids can be just plain normal if you like.

 

Ben

[hotShot]

0-3 - Looser a gameforcing 2♣ for me.

 

We go:

2♣ - 2♦ (0-3 HCP any distribution)

2♥ (5+♥) - 3♣ (5+ ♣)

With single ♦ and 0-3 HCP at partners hand NT is not an option.

4♣ (fit and RKCB) - 4♦ 0/3 of 5)

4♠ (what about kings)

 

now we have a problem, because it should go

 

..................................... - 5♣ (one king)

pass

 

but since opener showed ♥ length, it is clear you have the right king.

So on a good day I'd bid

 

..................................... -6♣ (let's try 6)

pass