4 Spades Pre-Empt over Weak NT

[eagles123]

[hv=pc=n&s=shajt985dajt6ckq8&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1n(12-14)4s]133|200[/hv]

 

5H enough or 6? or something else entirely :)

 

MP E/W known for aggresive pre-empts

 

 

Thanks,

 

Eagles

[the_clown]

I would bid 4N and then 5♥ over 5♣ to show a slam invite in ♥. If partner can bid 5♦ I would jump to 6h

[ArtK78]

Since partner opened a weak NT, I will just bid 5♥.

 

It is possible that there is a slam on these cards, as there rates to be little duplication. But you may also run into bad breaks which could beat an otherwise sound slam. So 5♥ is enough.

[aguahombre]

I would bid 4N and then 5♥ over 5♣ to show a slam invite in ♥. If partner can bid 5♦ I would jump to 6h

Since partner opened a weak NT, I will just bid 5♥.

 

It is possible that there is a slam on these cards, as there rates to be little duplication. But you may also run into bad breaks which could beat an otherwise sound slam. So 5♥ is enough.

Somewhere in between feels right to me. 4NT, followed by 5H after either minor. This is inviting slam and consistent with one of my favorite things: whenever possible, let partner be the one who makes the last mistake.

 

Others might phrase it differently: when in doubt, consult partner; but, we all know better :rolleyes:

[mycroft]

They're white, we're red. Partner could have two honours in spades - possibly even the top two. Good luck making slam with that.

 

I'm a "game before slam" kind of guy; so if I have some invite, I'll take it. But I don't want to be in 6♥ opposite any random hand that prefers a red suit to clubs.

[ArtK78]

Somewhere in between feels right to me. 4NT, followed by 5H after either minor. This is inviting slam and consistent with one of my favorite things: whenever possible, let partner be the one who makes the last mistake.

 

Others might phrase it differently: when in doubt, consult partner; but, we all know better :rolleyes:

Put yourself in a position to win the postmortem. :)

[monikrazy]

5♥ seems like our only option (assuming we don't have any method to transfer).

 

@aguahombre

4N - either minor - 5♥ seems like a rather odd sequence to invite slam

 

With a shape like xx -xxxx - xxx - xxxx I would expect 5♥ after 5♦ to be a preference bid. I use 4N to show a willingness to play in 2 suits.

[aguahombre]

5♥ seems like our only option (assuming we don't have any method to transfer).

 

@aguahombre

4N - either minor - 5♥ seems like a rather odd sequence to invite slam

 

With a shape like xx -xxxx - xxx - xxxx I would expect 5♥ after 5♦ to be a preference bid. I use 4N to show a willingness to play in 2 suits.

We don't. 4NT, then 5H is by definition inviting 6, as opposed to direct 5H for us, so it doesn't seem as odd to us as it does for someone without that understanding.

 

Of course, the example you give is a pass forever on this planet. Haven't visited the other ones yet.

[aguahombre]

Put yourself in a position to win the postmortem. :)

Yeh, unfortunately, Terry has the same philosophy, and equally allows me to make the last mistake.

[mycroft]

Never bid to win the postmortem - that way lies madness (and bad results). Bid to win the hand.

 

But, given a choice, if there is no other way to decide, making the bid that won't *lose* the postmortem isn't a bad idea...

[aguahombre]

Another failed attempt at humor has at least gotten me a lesson in partnership strategy. All is not lost.

[Zelandakh]

With a shape like xx -xxxx - xxx - xxxx I would expect 5♥ after 5♦ to be a preference bid. I use 4N to show a willingness to play in 2 suits.

This is the reason why a common refinement is to use an immediate 5♥ as a slam try with 4NT followed by 5♥ being merely competitive. In your sequence with Opener bidding 5♦, it is open as to whether Responder has hearts and clubs or only hearts (but Opener does not really need to know).

[rmnka447]

5 ♥ for me. That seems like the most likely positive result. There's no way to know if pard has the right cards for 6 and really no way to find out. So I'll take a good result versus a potentially perfect result.

[ggwhiz]

4nt followed by 5♥ here. Doesn't get us any higher unless pard goes. At least they were consulted and even aggressive pre-emptors own the suit sometimes.

 

It's known here as a transfer.... of responsibility.

[CSGibson]

6♥. Mostly because I think I can make 6 hearts opposite most hands with 10-11 HCP outside of spades, and on some hands with even more spade wastage, but also because there is a chance it would push them to saving even when it is wrong to do so.

[eagles123]

the full hand:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=shajt985dajt6ckq8&w=sj96hq742d92ca654&n=saq8hk3dkq875c932&e=skt75432h6d43cjt7]399|300[/hv]

[Fluffy]

damn, how come nobody jumped to 6♦ with this shape?

[mycroft]

Well, I called the spade suit at least :-)

 

Interesting. 6♦ makes. Nobody mentioned that as a possibility. But "which suit is going to break" and "which suit does partner have KQ in" and "really, that's a 14-count?" (and "look, no club J instead of a red K") I think means that the eternal pessimist was right for once.

[aguahombre]

damn, how come nobody jumped to 6♦ with this shape?

Yes, let's see if Justin recommends South jumping to 6D over 4S.

[CSGibson]

Actually, a real suggestion might be bidding 5♠, over which partner might very well bid 6♦

[ArtK78]

damn, how come nobody jumped to 6♦ with this shape?

[Palm of right hand hitting forehead] Of course! It is so obvious!

 

I am going to have to reexamine all of the horrible things I posted about this bid in last year's (two years ago?) Spingold (or was it the Vanderbilt?). Ah, yes, I remember it well.

 

This does appear to be a recurring theme, and 6♦ seems to be the winning call every time.