1NT or1 Major?

[PhilG007]

You hold the following hand:-

 

♠AQJxx

♥KQx

♦KJx

♣Jx

 

You are playing a strong NT 15-17 pts and 5 card majors. What do you bid? 1NT or 1♠?

Call me old fashioned, but I have never liked opening a 5 card major when holding NT opening points

and shape. Yet it now seems to be "acceptable" in the modern trend to open the major suit in preference

to 1NT. What do others think? Am I behind the times?

[hrothgar]

You hold the following hand:-

 

♠AQJxx You are playing a strong NT 15-17 points and 5 card majors.

♥KQ10 What do you open? 1NT or 1♠? Call me old fashioned,

[diamonds)Qxx but I have never liked opening a 5 card major when holding NT

♣Q10 points and a balanced hand yet it is now deemed "acceptable" to

open the major suit in preference 1 NT. What do others think?

 

My impression is that (traditionally) people chose to emphasize (5 card major) over (NT opening).

More recently, the preference is more towards (NT opening) rather than (5 card major)

 

I don't think that there is a firm consensus either way.

 

Personally, I prefer being about to show (approximate) shape and range with one bid, so I tend to open 1N with a 5 card major.

[TylerE]

1NT all day long.

[ArtK78]

If I were playing in a BBO Robot game, I would open 1NT, because it works.

 

My experience in live bridge is different, however. I open 1♠ on this hand as the spades are quite strong. If the suit were much weaker, say, QTxxx, I would open 1NT.

 

At matchpoints, I prefer to do what the field is doing on hands like this one, and I find that the field opens 1♠. That may not be true at higher levels of competition, and I adjust my style accordingly.

[billw55]

I don't think that there is a firm consensus either way.

Agree that there is no consensus, but there are definitely people who are very firm that their way is correct/best/divine/etc.

 

Personally I open 1NT. If my partner wants to agree to open 1-major instead, it's not worth arguing about, but I do need to know what rebid shows this hand.

[eagles123]

I asked this question a while ago, albeit concerning a weak NT, and it seems to be one of the few things I've asked about that really divided people virtually down the middle.

 

Eagles

[Endymion77]

1NT always with 5-3 in the majors but if you switch your clubs and hearts, you can open 1S (so you don't get a transfer to hearts and play in a 5-2 fit instead of a 5-3 spade fit). Note that if you open 1S you have to bid 2NT over partner's 1NT with this 17 count although it's not good enough to upgrade (with AQJxx KQ10 KJ10 Jx it would be clear). Otherwise the risk of missing game is too big.

[aguahombre]

Even among the 1NT campers (me), there are some very good reasons to make exceptions and some very good players who do so.

 

When the hand is a maximum, especially with extra primes, 1M seems to work out better, followed by a 2NT rebid if necessary. Note, I am not claiming the OP hand qualifies for that.

 

This is not a new idea, and it is not my idea, so those idolizers out there might want to take it into account.

Edited September 19, 2013 by aguahombre

[Wackojack]

Playing Acol weak no trump of course 1♠. Playing 15-17 Standard, I think I like this hand too much to open 1NT and will uprate it to 18 and rebid 2NT over a response of 1N.

[mycroft]

Yeah, I'm not convinced to open 1NT. The spades are *good* (heh, I had the exact same suit in another thread and didn't like it. Of course that was clubs and not spades, and I was going to have to rebid them straight up. Here I can bid 2x (even 2NT) over 1NTF, and we can play in a fit), and as far as 15-17s go, even with the waste-paper ♣J, this is off the high end. I'll treat it as 18 if I have to.

 

[Edit: if it isn't obvious, I'm not averse to 1NT with a 5cM; probably do it more often than the average club player]

[Vampyr]

Here I can bid 2x (even 2NT) over 1NTF, and we can play in a fit),

 

The OP didn't mention 1NTF. Anyway are you suggesting that you would open differently playing a standard 1NT response?

[RSClyde]

Playing Acol weak no trump of course 1♠. Playing 15-17 Standard, I think I like this hand too much to open 1NT and will uprate it to 18 and rebid 2NT over a response of 1N.

I always upgrade hands with one ace and 3 jacks.

[ggwhiz]

My first thought with this shape and range is always to bid 1nt but then I look for the flaws already mentioned, ie doubleton in the other major, a really good 17 or 2 weak suits (I open 1nt on a lot of 5-4 shapes too).

 

Lynn Deas wrote that you can't open 1nt too often but stressed that with a 5-card heart suit you most often have no good bid over a 1♠ response.

[ArtK78]

Lynn Deas wrote that you can't open 1nt too often but stressed that with a 5-card heart suit you most often have no good bid over a 1♠ response.

This sounds like a Saturday Night Live sketch. "You can't put too much water on a nuclear reactor." Does this mean that you should not put too much water on the nuclear reactor, or that no amount of water is too much? While the crew dithered back and forth over this, the reactor went critical.

 

So, which is it? You should not open 1NT too often, or you should open 1NT as often as possible? [i suspect that you mean the latter.]

[straube]

Playing Acol weak no trump of course 1♠. Playing 15-17 Standard, I think I like this hand too much to open 1NT and will uprate it to 18 and rebid 2NT over a response of 1N.

 

knr is 16.15

 

Pretty much right in the middle of 15-17.

 

http://www.jeff-goldsmith.org/cgi-bin/knr.cgi?hand=AQJxx+KQx+KJx+Jx

[helene_t]

If I were playing in a BBO Robot game, I would open 1NT, because it works.

Yes. Robots like passive leads so they will lead your 5 card suit more often than human defenders would .

[mgoetze]

You are playing a strong NT 15-17 pts and 5 card majors. What do you bid? 1NT or 1♠?

It depends on my partnership agreement, duh.

[Zelandakh]

It depends on my partnership agreement, duh.

Well in Germany (or France) it is obvious to open 1♠ with a random partner, no?

[mgoetze]

Well in Germany (or France) it is obvious to open 1♠ with a random partner, no?

I try to avoid random partners as much as possible. ;)

 

Fun fact: in Forum D 1♥-1♠; 2NT shows 15-17, but in Forum D Plus it shows 18-19.

 

So playing with a random partner, I might open 1NT just to keep the auction simple. But I would certainly expect that if my random partner held this hand, he or she would open 1♠.

Edited September 19, 2013 by mgoetze

[Zelandakh]

My understanding of Forum D (mostly from the DBV bridge magazine) is that 1♠ - 2m; 2NT also shows 15-17 and that a weak NT with 5 spades has to rebid 2♠ (Notgebot).

[mgoetze]

Yes, because in Forum D the 2/1 promises a second bid. But your "random partner" has something like a one in five chance of being an old-school ACOLite for whom 1♠-2m; 2NT shows 12-14 and is passable. ;)

[Zelandakh]

<----old school Acolite (but slowly trying to learn Forum D)

[the hog]

1NT certainly. Treat a balanced hand the way it should be treated - like a balanced hand.

[suleiman22]

I am surprised at the number of 1NT bidders. With a strong 5 card major I like 1♠. Especially with weakness in ♣, I am inclined to open 1♠. Anything I am missing? Thanks!

Suleiman

[aguahombre]

I am surprised at the number of 1NT bidders. With a strong 5 card major I like 1♠. Especially with weakness in ♣, I am inclined to open 1♠. Anything I am missing? Thanks!

Suleiman

Rebid problems occur when one is balanced within the NT range.

 

When the suit is Hearts, and partner responds 1S or 1N, you are in between and must reinvent the wheel each time (at the club level this is often "solved" with a break in tempo) :rolleyes: .

 

When the suit is Spades and partner responds 1NT (forcing or not), you have nowhere to go.

 

With the good 17's, however, you can survive by rebidding 2nt which shows 18-19.

 

Those are the considerations, anyway. People either are or are not concerned about them..and choose accordingly. Some pairs have toys to use after 1S-1N, 1H-1N, or 1H-1S to handle the dilemma without a break in tempo; but there are risks. They lose when the hand belonged in 1NT and no higher.

 

Others will rebid 2NT with the 15-17 and rebid 3NT with 18-19. They lose the ability to use the 3NT jump for something else. Again, at the club level the slow jump or raise to 2NT is effective and rarely are the cops called.

 

Finally, there is the matter of competition by the opponents, after which the partnership is totally in a guess mode when opener has failed to open 1NT with a NT opener.