Version 1.47w - please post feedback and suggestions here

[GreenMan]

I haven't noticed a difference in my average result in the instants. Though there seems to be a lot more variation -- I think I had an 82% and a 22% within 24 hours of each other.

 

Like I said, I think of it mainly as a chance for declarer practice and don't get too caught up in the standings. It's just not worth worrying much about.

[barmar]

There have also been other changes since these tourneys were originally played. We didn't have the "human declares" feature then, so sometimes you're competing against robot declarers. For some players, that may be a disadvantage :)

 

There's another difference for me. When I play normal robot tourneys, it's usually ACBL tourneys, but these are BBO tourneys. Maybe stronger players prefer the BBO tourneys for some reason?

[xeno123]

I think the instant tournaments are inherently more random than the regular tournaments. In the regular tournaments, all the GIB's basically bid and play the same (assuming the human bidding or play is also the same). Here, because the GIB's are being compared with older versions, the bidding (and to a lesser extent play) are likely to be different.

 

Here's a good example:

 

http://tinyurl.com/q5qowdq

 

In the original tournament all the GIB Easts raised their partner's 1♠ overcall to 2♠ which got passed out. By contrast, my (new-style) GIB East bid the better 3♣ and ended in a making game with an overtrick.

 

I really don't think there is any way to fix this issue short of using more recent tournaments (with GIB's that are more similar to the current version) or comparing your results to others that have recently played in the same instant tournament instead of only to the original players.

 

Peter

[barmar]

I guess the problem is that there are two opponent robots and only one partner, so the opponents have improved twice as much as partner. That does seem to put current players at a disadvantage.

[barmar]

I really don't think there is any way to fix this issue short of using more recent tournaments (with GIB's that are more similar to the current version) or comparing your results to others that have recently played in the same instant tournament instead of only to the original players.

We'll eventually load more recent tournaments (probably all of 2012) into the database used for this. We've decided that comparing with other players of the same instant tourney is not a good idea (e.g. you could try looking up the players in myhands). And it probably wouldn't be a very effective solution to this problem anyway, because it will take a long time before any tournament has a significant number of recent players (and as we load more old tournaments, it will take even longer); so they'll mostly be diluted by all the old results.

[lycier]

1- What's the default font for BBO?

2- Can BBO change background color in dialog box? now it is pure white in dialog box,I hope to change it into others,for example:light grey.

[1eyedjack]

Agreed. I am not paying any more money to play in a robot tourney where at different tables robots vary their decisions in identical conditions. Just played one where my robot partner was dealer. Half the room opened a weak 2D in first seat and half the room passed. How random is that? Think I will just wait an extra 5 mins for a level playing field.

Have changed my mind about this, to the extent that I now really quite like them.

It has its drawbacks, but I now think that these are more than countered by the benefits, which I see as:

 

1) most obviously, no delay in start

2) no delay in getting final result on your completion of final hand.

3) you get to see what happened at other tables immediately on conclusion of a hand, without having to wait for the slowest human to complete the entire tourney, and before you have yourself completed the tourney.

4) related to 3 above, the barometer score displayed on the conclusion of a hand is the final score and will never change (ie on awaiting others to finish the hand)

5) there is a guaranteed 0.60 masterpoints at stake for first place, contrasted with regular tourneys at off-peak hours which may attract only a hanful of players.

 

the dowsides to weigh against this are

1) different standards of bot at your table contrasted with others, leading to different actions taken in identical situations. I feel that this has potential for correction or improvement.

2) lack of stratification (of relevance obviously only to those who qualify for 2nd+ strata)

3) no format providing cash back options (such as the 55%)

4) not available on mobile devices (at time of writing. Doubtless will come eventually)

 

But if you are just on a hunt for BBO masterpoints, particularly in the wee small hours when reg tourneys are unpopular (and there would be only one strata as well as reduced masterpoint pool), the faster completion rate combined with max pool in my view trumps the downsides (assuming of course that you are not on mobile/tablet device and so have a choice).

[1eyedjack]

It occurs to me that Instant Tournaments may have the potential for undesirable amplification feedback as they say in audio HiFi circles:

 

Say you would rather play in an event with a guaranteed full section ranking for 0.60 Masterpoints.

Say that there are a large number of like-minded players.

So all these players online are minded to play in a tournament, and Lo! there happens to be a live tournament forming, with so far 4 or 5 players registered and 1 minute to the start.

So all these players decide to play in an Instant Tournament, where had that facility not been available they would have played in the live tournament which would then have been a full section and thereby eliminating the particular motivation that drove them to the Instant tourney in the first place.

 

As a result of this phenomenon more and more players get frustrated with the small (and ever decreasing) turnout to the live tourneys and themselves join the population of Instant Tourney converts, until ultimately all anyone ever does is play in Instant Tourneys,

 

Just a theoretical musing. I doubt that in practice it would ever come to that.

[diana_eva]

It occurs to me that Instant Tournaments may have the potential for undesirable amplification feedback as they say in audio HiFi circles:

 

Say you would rather play in an event with a guaranteed full section ranking for 0.60 Masterpoints.

Say that there are a large number of like-minded players.

So all these players online are minded to play in a tournament, and Lo! there happens to be a live tournament forming, with so far 4 or 5 players registered and 1 minute to the start.

So all these players decide to play in an Instant Tournament, where had that facility not been available they would have played in the live tournament which would then have been a full section and thereby eliminating the particular motivation that drove them to the Instant tourney in the first place.

 

As a result of this phenomenon more and more players get frustrated with the small (and ever decreasing) turnout to the live tourneys and themselves join the population of Instant Tourney converts, until ultimately all anyone ever does is play in Instant Tourneys,

 

Just a theoretical musing. I doubt that in practice it would ever come to that.

 

Each time we launch a new type of tourney it ends up partially hurting existing tournaments. So yes, this is happening to some extent. The challenge is to be able to keep a balance so that a new product addresses different needs and attracts brand new players instead of merely converting existing robot tourney players from other types of tourneys to the new tourney.

[hsheng]

but where or how will I get this new version? :o

[1eyedjack]

but where or how will I get this new version? :o

You automatically play the latest version when you access the game through your web browser with Flash installed.

This version is not available in the windows dowloadable client, nor will ever be. That interface has ceased development.

Instant tourneys are not currently available on the mobile app (andoid/ios) but that will come no doubt

[lycier]

Today I found that my hands ordering list were very wrong twice in My Results.

1- While I was looking on Yellows diana_eva in Team match #7847,the exact ordering are 1,6,9,8,2,5,7,3,4,10,12 and 11.

2- While I was looking on 55th Winter Nationals 2013 Ahamedabad -F-3/4 or F-2/4,same wrong ordering.

 

Btw,my new pc is windows7.

[barmar]

Today I found that my hands ordering list were very wrong twice in My Results.

1- While I was looking on Yellows diana_eva in Team match #7847,the exact ordering are 1,6,9,8,2,5,7,3,4,10,12 and 11.

2- While I was looking on 55th Winter Nationals 2013 Ahamedabad -F-3/4 or F-2/4,same wrong ordering.

 

Btw,my new pc is windows7.

You may have clicked on a column heading to change the ordering. The normal ordering is by hand number, but if you click on one of the other headings you'll reorder by that column.

[lycier]

Recently I unfortunately found my several new folder have gone missing from my "Hands and Result",I have to say I have about over 30 folders before,I know it may be too many.

How many folders can it be built in the Hands And Result?

 

I wanna to know the answer.

[1eyedjack]

When in the lobby you click on an online player's name you get a helpful popup window with loads of useful info, divided into tabs: Profile, Private Chat, and Table (if at a table). There is room for another tab: "Kibitzers" which could list the kibitzers at the table at which the player resides. As with the "Table" tab, this tab would only appear if the player is at a table, and perhaps should only appear if there is at least one kibitzer.

 

I think that it probably should not list kibitzers who have logged on as Invisible.

 

Possibly it should not list kibitzers at a viewgraph table.

 

Possibly the whole idea could be integrated into the "Table" tab - listing the kibbers as a scrolling window underneath the 4 players at table.

 

 

[1eyedjack]

When you complete the last hand of a tourney you get booted to lobby (or so it seems to me). If you were not the last table you might want to hang around in the tourney to listen to tourney chatter. You could via several mouse clicks go and find the continuing tourney but that is irritating. Also if you are the last table playing you may well miss a congratulatory roll call or other TD announcements.

[barmar]

I think it would make more sense for this to be part of the table tab -- the kibitzers aren't really an attribute of the player.

[cat76club]

I noticed the connection bars that show how fast my connection is, and like that.

My suggestion is to put those connection bars on the player nametags on the table,

so one can see if another player has a slow connection.

[1eyedjack]

I have been trying out a spanking new toy (not a new spanking toy :)), which is to say a Windows 8 convertible laptop/tablet with touchscreen.

 

So far, playing on BBO with the Flash client has been pretty trouble-free, and I am relieved that I can select cards and bids etc by tapping on them directly on the screen. But there are one or two things that you could make more helpful in a later release:

 

1) Resizing the window.

 

I am accustomed with android devices in most apps to be able to zoom in and out of a window in a fluid manner by touching the screen simultaneously with thumb and forefinger initially placed close together and then dragging them apart on the screen (to enlarge) or start with them apart and drag them together (to shrink). Currently in BBO on Win8 all that I can achieve is two zoom settings, between which you can toggle by double-tapping on the screen. This is a bit restrictive for me. Especially if I am touching the screen in "tablet mode" to select bids and plays, then even the larger of the two available settings is sometimes not large enough to overcome the risk of mis-click.

 

Maybe Flash imposes restrictions in this area that we cannot overcome?

 

2) Scrolling a zoomed-in window

 

Having zoomed in (even by the existing limited method of double-tapping on the screen to get a one-off zoom) it would be nice to scroll the magnified window by dragging your finger over the surface, rather than by using the scroll bars at the margins of the window

 

3) Getting description of robot bids

 

With the keyboard enabled, you can get the meanings of GIB bids by hovering the mouse over the bid.

 

Relying solely on tablet mode this is not possible. I would have hoped that tapping on the bid would have this effect.

 

Maybe if you programmed it so that either hovering on the bid or clicking on the bid with the mouse would both have the effect of displaying GIB bid meanings, then you would get the best of both worlds. For those using keyboards they would have the benefit of not having to click on the bid before getting the explanation. For those not using keyboards you would have to tap on the bid (equivalent to mouse click on bid) but that at least would get the desired response.

 

 

 

 

 

[alanrick]

Hi 1eyedjack,

1. Have you used the native Windows 8 screen-splitter?

IMHO far superior to messing around resizing windows - especially with touch.

E.g. BBO in one screen half (in the Chrome browser) and skype or Internet Explorer in the other.

 

3. I agree.

Tapping on the bid would work both on touch and non-touch devices just like tapping on a player's name brings up their profile (no hover). BTW. I wish you could remove the profile by clicking somewhere else on the screen (such as the green felt) instead of having to wait for it to disappear.

 

OT: I just noticed that on a bidding table you can hover over a bid to see the meaning of the bid you're about to make (won't be able to provide that on a touch device) and also the wizard for starting a new table. Love both features :)

 

BTW: Launch help+tips from your start screen to see video tutorials on how to use the new Windows features. screen-splitter is called "Applications side by side" by Microsoft.

 

Alan

[1eyedjack]

1. Have you used the native Windows 8 screen-splitter?

IMHO far superior to messing around resizing windows - especially with touch.

E.g. BBO in one screen half (in the Chrome browser) and skype or Internet Explorer in the other.

I am pretty sure that we are talking at complete cross-purposes here. It is true that I am a complete newbie to Win8 and have not tried the screen-splitter.

However I am not particularly interested in resizing the windows, ie by adjusting their borders, but am interested in resizing the text and graphics etc, ie visible area, within a window. I would envisage the window itself retaining its original dimensions during this process, and horizontal and vertical scroll bars would appear to enable navigation to hidden areas created by having zoomed in (but subject to shortcut in item 2) At least, that was the issue in point 1 of my post above

 

OT: I just noticed that on a bidding table you can hover over a bid to see the meaning of the bid you're about to make (won't be able to provide that on a touch device) and also the wizard for starting a new table. Love both features :)

I had not thought of this but it is another valid point. We should be moving to an environment in which you can survive with just a tablet and, where required, a virtual keyboard embedded in the tablet screen.

 

My suggestion for a solution to how to get an explanation that you are about to make before committing to it, without keyboard assistance would be to have a long press on the bid pop up a menu, which would include "Confirm bid" and "Cancel", with the explanation of the bid being displayed in the popup.

[1eyedjack]

1) Resizing the window.

 

I am accustomed with android devices in most apps to be able to zoom in and out of a window in a fluid manner by touching the screen simultaneously with thumb and forefinger initially placed close together and then dragging them apart on the screen (to enlarge) or start with them apart and drag them together (to shrink). Currently in BBO on Win8 all that I can achieve is two zoom settings, between which you can toggle by double-tapping on the screen. This is a bit restrictive for me. Especially if I am touching the screen in "tablet mode" to select bids and plays, then even the larger of the two available settings is sometimes not large enough to overcome the risk of mis-click.

 

Maybe Flash imposes restrictions in this area that we cannot overcome?

 

2) Scrolling a zoomed-in window

 

Having zoomed in (even by the existing limited method of double-tapping on the screen to get a one-off zoom) it would be nice to scroll the magnified window by dragging your finger over the surface, rather than by using the scroll bars at the margins of the window

UPDATE

 

I have observed that in the "Accessibility Tools" that come bundled with Windows 8, and I am pretty sure with earlier versions of Windows, is a Magnifying Glass tool.

 

The original tool (ie in earlier versions) will have been provided for the benefit of those with failing eyesight rather than those with fat fingers trying to tap with precision on a small card symbol on a touch sensitive screen. Touchscreens were not much in evidence in those early days (or the OS did not cater for them). Nevertheless it is of some benefit for the latter purpose with the advent of Windows 8 and proliferation of touchscreens.

 

At least, it OUGHT to be a dinosaur, because like I said initially, simply spreading your fingers on the screen should in the modern day have the same effect and with greater convenience and precision. However, it remains of some benefit in those instances where spreading your fingers on the screen does not have any effect.

 

It is still not ideal. The magnifying glass tool acts similar to the double-tap on the screen, in that it will only magnify in quantum leaps. Furthermore, having magnified it, scrolling the window is cumbersome. It may not be behaving properly on my machine, but I can only scroll the window if I start at one of the scroll bars. Ironically, as long as I leave my finger on the screen having started at the scroll bar at the edge, it will allow me to scroll in two dimensions by dragging the finger over the centre part of the screen. Only I have to start in a diagonal direction or it will only scroll in one dimension thereafter. Very odd.

 

Another observation: If you pull up the "Results" tab for a completed tourney, the results within that tab DO scroll by dragging the finger vertically in the middle of the tab. So the solution is in sight, but it only applies in certain specific occasions. What is more, I am encouraged to observe also that, again with the Results tab displayed, you CAN re-size this text by placing two fingers simultaneously within that window and either dragging them apart (to enlarge) or together (to shrink). And in so doing, the background window from which the Results tab is picked also gets re-sized. So, the mechanism is there; it is just a question of extending its application to the whole of BBO generally.

 

 

 

 

[1eyedjack]

UPDATE

 

Earlier I wrote

 

3) Getting description of robot bids

 

With the keyboard enabled, you can get the meanings of GIB bids by hovering the mouse over the bid.

 

Relying solely on tablet mode this is not possible. I would have hoped that tapping on the bid would have this effect.

 

Maybe if you programmed it so that either hovering on the bid or clicking on the bid with the mouse would both have the effect of displaying GIB bid meanings, then you would get the best of both worlds. For those using keyboards they would have the benefit of not having to click on the bid before getting the explanation. For those not using keyboards you would have to tap on the bid (equivalent to mouse click on bid) but that at least would get the desired response.

 

Then later in the thread in response to some correspondence I wrote

My suggestion for a solution to how to get an explanation that you are about to make before committing to it, without keyboard assistance would be to have a long press on the bid pop up a menu, which would include "Confirm bid" and "Cancel", with the explanation of the bid being displayed in the popup.

 

It now occurs to me that this suggested solution would have a wider application, by which I mean at tables where no robots are playing. In this situation the consequence of hovering a mouse over a bid differs where the bid was by a human with a human partner than it does where a robot is in the partnership. With two human opponents, clicking on the bid would issue a request for an explanation. What we need is a method, on a touchscreen machine, with no keyboard or mouse, to distinguish between a request for a meaning to a bid on the one hand, and on the other a simple review of whatever explanation might have already been provided.

 

Well, there are only two situations that require distinguishing, and fortunately we have two methods to achieve it with just the screen and fingertip. Under my proposal

 

1) A simple short tap on a historic bid made by an entirely human partnership would issue to a human bidder a request for the bid to be explained.

 

2) A simple short tap on a historic bid made by a player in a partnership at least one of whom is a robot would request the GIB explanation to be displayed

 

3) A long press on a historic bid would cause any existing explanation for the bid to be displayed. Where either opponent is a robot the effect would be identical to item 2 above, but where both are humans its effect would be distinguished from item 1 in that it would not issue any request to the opponent. I have in mind the scenario where a manual alert and explanation has already been provided and you seek only to review that explanation without issuing a repeat request.

 

4) A simple short tap on a bid available to you when it is your turn to bid, but not yet made, would cause that bid to be submitted to the table

 

5) A long press on a bid available to you when it is your turn to bid, but not yet made, would cause the meaning of the bid to be displayed (or a message to the effect that no definition is available). This option would generally only have any effect if you are partnering a robot or have loaded a "Full Disclosure" convention card with a human.

 

Originally I suggested that a long press should pop up a menu. That would certainly be consistent with the accepted protocol for long presses in general, but it would only be necessary if more than one option were potentially required. Aside from cancelling the message I don't expect that there would be any call for that. I think that the best way to handle it would be for the message to fade out after a time interval (possibly user definable interval), similar to when you click on a player's name to view the profile. The explanation for the bid would have buttons displayed on it to "Pin" it or (scenario 5 only) to "submit" the bid to the table.

 

For those with mice the act of hovering the mouse over a bid would have the effect of a long press on the bid per scenarios 3 and 5 above as described in tablet mode, as indeed it currently behaves.

[alanrick]

Talking of fat fingers.

Sadly, Microsoft only paid lip service to the touch screen desktop (IMHO touch is the most useful thing to have happened to Windows in 10 years).

 

Here's a setting that doesn't help BBO Web but makes many other Windows programs much easier to use with touch http://ow.ly/i/3wpHj/original

All the best,

Alan

[barmar]

As far as BBO is concerned, when you're using the Windows 8 tablet, it's just a web browser. The web version of BBO is designed for desktop/laptop computers. If you're running it on a mobile device with no mouse, it's up to the OS to emulate the mouse's features. All our touch-specific features are in the mobile app, not the web app, and this is only available for iOS and Android.