another question on 1D-1S

[Shugart23]

In first seat, holding Qxx in Spades, K2 in Hearts, Kxx in Diamonds and AQxxx in Clubs, I opened 1D, partner bids 1S...Do you bid 1NT showing 14/15 balanced) or do you bid 2Clubs ?

 

Our 1NT opening is 10-12/bad 13.......I showed my Clubs on the rebid because I didn't want to get in trouble against opponents 8 or 9 card Heart holding.

 

Just curious if there is a consensus...Thanks

[Lord Molyb]

[hv=pc=n&s=sqxxhk2dkxxcaqxxx&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1dp1sp]133|200[/hv]

[aguahombre]

It seems as if when we hold what most of the world would open 1m and rebid 1NT to describe our size and shape (or open 1NT with a normal weak range), we should do that.

[Shugart23]

Thanks, My King of Hearts gave me pause, as I would have the lead coming around to me in the event I end up playing NT.....

 

Change the King of Hearts to a little heart and change a little club to the King of Clubs, do you still bid 1NT after first opening the Diamond ?

[sfi]

Sure. Showing a balanced hand with a narrow range helps our constructive auction so much that you want to look for reasons to do it rather than to not do it. Qxx xx Kxx AKQxx is a fine 1NT rebid. 2S is a good choice, but 2C is much less helpful than either of the other two.

[SteveMoe]

...we always rebid 1N and save 2♣ for any hand with 45 or 54 in minors.

[straube]

Thanks, My King of Hearts gave me pause, as I would have the lead coming around to me in the event I end up playing NT.....

 

Change the King of Hearts to a little heart and change a little club to the King of Clubs, do you still bid 1NT after first opening the Diamond ?

 

We rebid 1N and it works out well for us most of the time. There are wrong-siding issues but 1N saves a lot of room for continuations. You could agree to raise spades in this situation (xx hearts) but then you need the tools to sort this out. Rebidding 2C should show both minors. You also have to decide what to do with 1435 and 1453. For example with 1435 you can open 2C if this only promises 5 clubs, but if your 2C opening promises 6 then you need to open 1D and rebid 2C.

[Shugart23]

We rebid 1N and it works out well for us most of the time. There are wrong-siding issues but 1N saves a lot of room for continuations. You could agree to raise spades in this situation (xx hearts) but then you need the tools to sort this out. Rebidding 2C should show both minors. You also have to decide what to do with 1435 and 1453. For example with 1435 you can open 2C if this only promises 5 clubs, but if your 2C opening promises 6 then you need to open 1D and rebid 2C.

 

we have begun tinkering with our system...up until about 4 weeks ago, we would tend to open 2C with 5 clubs,4 card major with 11 HCP no matter how crappy our clubs were..(We play match points exclusively)

 

Lately we have been making sure the club suit was decent...This in turn, means we have begun opening the poorer 1435 and 4153 hands with 1 Diamond.

 

But then 1D-1S-2C no longer promises 9 cards in the minors, like it used to do a month ago........It's a work in progress; sigh

[phoenix214]

Well with 1435 Still you can bid 1NT over 1D-1S, Nothing bad with that. Id say you should have a read on some precision systems online maybe. Id suggest reading revision club. It has some good ideas, may help you with your 2C and 1D oppenings

[aguahombre]

Well with 1435 Still you can bid 1NT over 1D-1S, Nothing bad with that.

Some of us think there is something bad with that...a foreseeable consequence of not allowing 1-4-3-5 to open 2C in a forcing club system ---and reason enough to rethink that choice.

[Shugart23]

the issue we are/were trying to address is when we open 2C with weak clubs and a 4 card Major and weak HCP, we sometimes miss playing the 2H or 2S partial and play 2C instead. No big deal in imps, but can be big deal at match points.

 

One possible solution is to just start opening 4 card Majors, 11-15 HCP....This would change a lot of things I do :)

[straube]

the issue we are/were trying to address is when we open 2C with weak clubs and a 4 card Major and weak HCP, we sometimes miss playing the 2H or 2S partial and play 2C instead. No big deal in imps, but can be big deal at match points.

 

One possible solution is to just start opening 4 card Majors, 11-15 HCP....This would change a lot of things I do :)

 

You should decide 4 vs 5-cd majors very early on and probably not on account of a few rebid problems.

 

I'd following the likes of systems such as IMPrecision and RMPrecision in requiring 6 clubs in your 2C opening. Rodwell calls the 2C opening the achilles heel of Precision because it buries 4/4 major suit fits.

 

You'll also have an easier time handling diamond hands if you use your 2D opening for 6+ diamonds rather than the Precision short diamond. If you count patterns, you'll find that this use for 2D handles far more patterns than the short diamond option. I like our 2D opening to deny a 4-cd major but IMPrecision recommends opening 2D even with a 4-cd major.

 

I like 1D-2H for Reverse Flannery (5S/4+H non-invitational) and Meckwell plays 1D-2S for GI 5S/4+H as well. This leaves 1D-1H, 2m-2S and 1D-1S, 2m-2H as artificial GF bids.

 

After 1D-1H, our 2C opening promises 5D/4+C such that we have to rebid 1S with 3145. Our 1D-1S rebids are much more complicated and a 2C rebid promises 8+ minors but only guarantees 3+D and 4+C

 

1D-1S, 2D=4H/5+D

 

So you have 1D-1S, 2H and 1D-1S, 2S for most of your spade raises. See Adam's post in neighboring thread.

[Shugart23]

Thank you. Good thoughts. I pulled out Neapolitan System a few days ago just to see what they do with the 1D,1H, and 1S openings. Been playing 5 card Major openings with Precision but might want to try something different. (I'm not in the camp that 5 card Majors are a necessity, although I haven't played it any other way.)

 

Is the IMprecision bidding tailored toward Imp Scoring vs. Match point ?