skip 1S here?

[the hog]

1NT because you have a balanced hand. Show your shape first.You limit your hand and show your shape. This is far more useful than bidding 1S.

[aguahombre]

In one-way checkback a 1♦ bid denies a fit nod denies four if the other major. Now 2NT is invitational. It truly is a simple method.

 

Many people, however, use bids of 2NT and above to show hands in the higher range. This works fine too.

1D-1H

1N-2C (where the Spade suit is still in question)

2D=according to your choices, minimum or maximum with 2 hearts and either 4 or five Diamonds.

 

In our version, where Spades have been denied by the 1NT rebid, 2D shows lower value and 5 Diamonds. We can't have the lower value with only 4 diamonds and 2 hearts, because 3-2-4-4 opens 1C. (Won't even tell you what the impossible 2S bid shows in this situation; it would spoil your dinner.)

 

1C-1H

1N-2D---your version does not have the luxury of bidding an insufficient 2D or of bidding 2S without four of them...leaving 2N unclarified opposite Responder who might have an 11-12 count and has to guess. In ours, 2S is an idle bid to be used for the crap openers with only 2H.

 

I believe we would have to go to 2-way checkback to handle all the plugs, but perhaps one-way pairs are content to fix it some other way ---like just forgetting a 4-4 Spade fit altogether when Opener is balanced.

[Vampyr]

 

1C-1H

1N-2D---your version does not have the luxury of bidding an insufficient 2D or of bidding 2S without four of them...leaving 2N unclarified opposite Responder who might have an 11-12 count and has to guess. In ours, 2S is an idle bid to be used for the crap openers with only 2H.

 

I thought we were talking about simple checkback, one way, so I am not sure of the relevance of your 2♦ bid, and I certainly don't expect opener to do anything over it except pass or correct to 2♥.

I believe we would have to go to 2-way checkback to handle all the plugs, but perhaps one-way pairs are content to fix it some other way ---like just forgetting a 4-4 Spade fit altogether when Opener is balanced.

 

If you always bid hearts first with the relevant number of both majors, you can get in all of the hand-types.

[aguahombre]

I thought we were talking about simple checkback, one way, so I am not sure of the relevance of your 2♦ bid, and I certainly don't expect opener to do anything over it except pass or correct to 2♥.

 

 

If you always bid hearts first with the relevant number of both majors, you can get in all of the hand-types.

Actually "simple checkback" (NMF) is the new minor. The 2nd paragraph does not compute.

[Vampyr]

Actually "simple checkback" (NMF) is the new minor. The 2nd paragraph does not compute.

 

Oh, I see! "My version" was New Minor Forcing -- I had no idea. In that case I am happy to agree that "my" method is not fit for purpose. I had better start bidding my balanced hands as two-suiters!

 

My second paragraph is difficult to phrase another way, but I will try...after 2♣ Checkback, opener does not necessarily show support first. If she has 3-card support in one major and 4 cards in the other, she bids the lower one first.

[aguahombre]

Oh, I see! "My version" was New Minor Forcing -- I had no idea. In that case I am happy to agree that "my" method is not fit for purpose. I had better start bidding my balanced hands as two-suiters!

 

My second paragraph is difficult to phrase another way, but I will try...after 2♣ Checkback, opener does not necessarily show support first. If she has 3-card support in one major and 4 cards in the other, she bids the lower one first.

Sorry, I hadn't considered one-way old minor forcing as a possible convention. If I had, I would then try to figure out an adjustment, such as 2D forcing partner to bid 2C. Seriously, you might as well play 2-way checkbacks if you are going to give up playing in 2C anyway.

[Vampyr]

Sorry, I hadn't considered one-way old minor forcing as a possible convention. If I had, I would then try to figure out an adjustment, such as 2D forcing partner to bid 2C. Seriously, you might as well play 2-way checkbacks if you are going to give up playing in 2C anyway.

 

I don' t know what it's like where you live, but in the EBU partners not allowed to bid 2♣ over 2♦. Most of my partners do not want to play 2-way checkback anyway.

 

I have more than once stopped in 2♦ after partner opened 1♣. Considering that 2-way players give up playing in two of either minor, I don't believe that I am really losing a lot by giving up playing in 2♣.

 

I am not entirely sure, but I think that outside the ACBL "normal" checkback is far more popular than NMF. In England, few people have heard of the latter.

[Mbodell]

Imho you assume it wrong. By default you bid up the line. Showing an unbalanced hand requires pdship agreement + probably alert to opponents.(i may not be correct on the alert part, has been awhile)

 

In the ACBL this doesn't require an alert. I'd also by default assume that people bid 1nt with a flat hand, bypassing a major, because IME more (but definitely not all) good players do this. However, this is amongst the things not on a standard ACBL convention card that I discuss with pickup partners (defense to strong club, rebidding 1nt versus up the line, what to play over 1x-1y-2nt, what to play over reverse, some defensive tendencies).

[mgoetze]

Considering that 2-way players give up playing in two of either minor,

I don't know what you mean by "2-way players". If I agreed to play "2-way checkback" I would have a high expectation that responder can easily choose to play 2♦.

[gwnn]

It's still bridge and it's still the 1 level. The advantages and disadvantages enumerated above are greatly exaggerated. /rant

 

One advantage I think not mentioned above for the unbalanced version are the handy sequences

1C-1H

1S-2/3C.

But also read my first paragraph above.

[Vampyr]

I don't know what you mean by "2-way players". If I agreed to play "2-way checkback" I would have a high expectation that responder can easily choose to play 2♦.

 

Yes of course they can. I posted without really thinking.

[GreenMan]

I don't know what you mean by "2-way players". If I agreed to play "2-way checkback" I would have a high expectation that responder can easily choose to play 2♦.

 

Not all versions of 2-way include 2♣ forcing 2♦. Without discussion I'd assume we were playing that way, but when you assume, etc.

[VM1973]

Well I guess 1NT, which after voting turns out to have been the field vote. I've started playing a 12-14 NT opener because otherwise you make a perfectly normal opening bid on a 4-3-3-3 such as: ♠KJx ♥QJx ♦KJxx ♣QTx and then partner has something distributional and bids a lot and later gets p.o.ed because there weren't 26+ zar points in the opener's hand.

[Free]

As sooooooooooooooooo many similar topics have pointed out: it's a matter of style, both approaches have their advantages and disadvantages and there's no clear winner...

[bd71]

Here's a useful thread on the systemic choice of whether to rebid 1♠ or 1N here...

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/48475-automatic-nt-rebid-w-balanced-hand/

[fromageGB]

I'm going for 1♠. Let partner bid 1NT if he wants to. I would have thought that having this as 4xx5 rather than 4xxx would be a partnership agreement rather than the expectation. Mind you, I'm all in favour of finding 4-4 major fits rather than miss them and play in 1NT. I'd rather look for them, then play in 1NT if not there.

 

The problem with checkback is that partner is probably more likely than not to be less than invitational.

[mike777]

good points by both sides.

 

all this talk reminds me that:

 

1c=1h

1s=2s is less than:

 

1c=1h

1s=2c!

2d!=2s

 

 

 

I assume the by passé 1s bidders hve their own system fixes for this.

[ggwhiz]

I assume the by passé 1s bidders hve their own system fixes for this.

 

You are correct in that we have as much system after a 1nt rebid as a 1nt opener and it's necessary to win hands with frequency and we certainly don't win em all.

[aguahombre]

good points by both sides.

 

all this talk reminds me that:

 

1c=1h

1s=2s is less than:

 

1c=1h

1s=2c!

2d!=2s

 

I assume the by passé 1s bidders hve their own system fixes for this.

What's the fix for a responder who wanted to lay down dummy in 2C?

[mike777]

What's the fix for a responder who wanted to lay down dummy in 2C?

 

 

 

3c or the opp will never let you play 2c but you knew that

 

 

Esp here on the forums where many overcall on almost any 5-6 card suit or make a takeout double with short c and any kind of semidecent hand :)

[aguahombre]

3c or the opp will never let you play 2c but you knew that

 

Esp here on the forums where many overcall on almost any 5-6 card suit or make a takeout double with short c and any kind of semidecent hand :)

You are assuming Responder has a hand where he doesn't want the opponents to come in. With, say XX KJXX XXXX QXX, I wouldn't want to jump to 3C even after Opener has shown something like 4-2-2-5 ---she wouldn't appreciate the humor. I have already gained if Opener guaranteed unbalanced pattern by not perpetrating a 1NT rebid, and don't feel like blowing it with a jump.