Opening Bid

[eagles123]

w/w imps ACOL 4 card majors 12-14NT

 

[hv=pc=n&n=sj3hk4dat53cajt76]133|100[/hv]

 

 

 

I opened this 1NT, thinking it was relatively obvious due to the rebid problem after 1 club 1M, but i've looked at the traveller afterwards and only 2 of the other 17 norths have done the same, everyone else went for 1 club opening so wondering if my judgement was off or not basically!

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Eagles

 

edit: we are dealer

[Lord Molyb]

is a 12-14 NT common where you play?

I open 1♦ just because

[eagles123]

yes 12-14 1NT is the standard around here.

[Cyberyeti]

yes 12-14 1NT is the standard around here.

 

I don't open 1N, I open 1♣. It's not common in the UK to open 1♦ with 4-5. The reason is that if I open 1N I may play there opposite xxx, Axxx, x, KQxxx or 3N opposite xxx, Axx, KQJxx, Kx, both offer good play for 5m and the first will very likely be 150 in clubs vs 120 in NT even if you don't bid game, the second may be tied at 400, but could easily be -50 in 3N vs 400.

 

A little weaker or with 2+ points in the spade suit, I'd open 1N with this shape.

 

If you open 1N you're basically making the lowest available preempt to keep the majors out of the auction, and I feel your hand has a fraction too much potential for that.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&n=sj3hk4dat53cajt76]133|100|

w/w imps ACOL 4 card majors 12-14NT[/hv]

IMO 1N = 10, 1♣ = 8, 1♦ = 6.

[fromageGB]

I think it depends on whether you are playing a wide-ranging 1NT rebid (eg 12-16). If you are, I think it is probably better to open 1♣, rebidding 1NT over major, but if a 1NT rebid is 15/16, you are a poor 14 for that, so open 1NT. The advantage of 1♣ is the possibility of everyone passing, or partner bidding a minor.

[Wackojack]

1NT looks normal to me

[Wackojack]

1NT looks normal to me

[mycroft]

I don't play Acol, I play K/S, and my two options are 1NT or pass. If I open 1♣ with this, either I'm committing to rebidding 2♣ on a horrible suit or showing 15 high.

 

So as was said above, is 1♣-1something; 1NT 12-16? If so, and if you can resolve it, 1♣ is superior.

[Cyberyeti]

I don't play Acol, I play K/S, and my two options are 1NT or pass. If I open 1♣ with this, either I'm committing to rebidding 2♣ on a horrible suit or showing 15 high.

 

So as was said above, is 1♣-1something; 1NT 12-16? If so, and if you can resolve it, 1♣ is superior.

 

If AJ10xx is a horrible suit, you don't get dealt good ones often :)

[Zelandakh]

When I started playing I always opened these hands 1♣, simply because that was the "book" bid holding an unbalanced hand. Nowadays I am much more likely to open 1NT holding 2245 and this seems fine here. Since the majority of club players never get past the "book" phase it does not surprise me at all that everyone opened 1♣. And on the given hand, with ♣AJTxx, I also would not have a problem with that route. I would never open this hand 1♦ playing Acol.

[ArtK78]

While ACOL may have some nuances that I am not familiar with, this looks like a normal 1NT opening to me playing 12-14 1NT.

 

To me, opening 1♦ and rebidding 2♣ implies an unbalanced hand or a hand stronger than 14 HCP, and opening 1♣ and rebidding 2♣ shows either an unbalanced hand or six clubs. Perhaps that is not true in ACOL.

[steve2005]

If AJ10xx is a horrible suit, you don't get dealt good ones often :)

AJTxx is a highly underrated holding if partner has a honor you have 0-1 losers with no honors but xxx there is a 75% chance of just 1 loser

[mycroft]

in K/S, 1m-2m "promises" 6 and will be passed with a misfitting 6-count. AJTxx is a pretty crappy 6-card suit, and plays really well opposite a singleton - in another suit.

 

I, like everyone else, don't get dealt good *rebiddable* suits very often (*). I did sort of think that was obvious from context :-)

 

(*) okay, "I play APAD", "I went into directing because I was such a bad card holder". So I may get fewer good rebiddable suits than average :-)

[Cyberyeti]

While ACOL may have some nuances that I am not familiar with, this looks like a normal 1NT opening to me playing 12-14 1NT.

 

To me, opening 1♦ and rebidding 2♣ implies an unbalanced hand or a hand stronger than 14 HCP, and opening 1♣ and rebidding 2♣ shows either an unbalanced hand or six clubs. Perhaps that is not true in ACOL.

 

ACOL tends to treat 5422 as unbalanced.

 

rebids of 2♣ on a 5 card suit are common, over 1♣-1♠ you will rebid 2♣ if 2425, 0445, 1435, 1345 for certain.

[beatrix45]

It is very important that when you open the bidding, you MUST also consider your rebid. Usually, this is not very hard. In this case, it is an issue. If you open one ♣, and partner responds one ♥ or one ♠, your only rebid is 2♣ - not so hot. If you open one ♦, then after a one ♥ or one ♠ response, your rebid is 2♣ - again, not so hot. If you open 1NT, then you have described your hand with one bid (albeit with one minor flaw). The lesser of three evils in my opinion is 1NT, by far.

[the hog]

Playing Acol this is an obvious 1NT opening for me. Playing other systems I would open 1D, not 1C.

 

"ACOL tends to treat 5422 as unbalanced." Only if playing a very old fashioned style.

[wank]

1nt for sure. the reason noone else in your club opened 1nt is that they're all pretty bad. i suspect you already bid better than them after however many months you've played there.

 

rebidding 5 card suits is a bad thing, no matter what system you're playing. if it's a major you're sometimes forced to do it because you're not strong enough to bid your side suit at the 3 level opposite a 2 level response. if it's a minor, you can often find a way round it, chiefly by opening/rebidding NTs according to strength.

[helene_t]

1♣ is not wrong with a reasonable suit ,and playing IMPs you don't have to rush to notrumps. If ♠J had been the Ten I would have preferred 1♣. As it is you have a hand that is better for declaring than for being dummy. So I would go for 1NT.

[the hog]

1♣ is not wrong with a reasonable suit ,and playing IMPs you don't have to rush to notrumps. If ♠J had been the Ten I would have preferred 1♣. As it is you have a hand that is better for declaring than for being dummy. So I would go for 1NT.

 

No one said it is "wrong", just that 1NT is far superior.

[1eyedjack]

Acol is not very prescriptive. Indeed it comes in a number of flavours. You have to have a prepared rebid when forced, but that is the same in any method. I don't think that there is any distinction between Acol and KS here.

 

1N is absolutely the normal modern opener. And it is not just about whether 1C.-?-2C is "safe" because the suit is OK. It is as much about pre-emption, cutting out the 1M overcall, and getting in and out of the auction early.

 

Those who say that in Acol you don't open 1N on 5422 shape are I think falling into the trap of considering what we teach beginners. There is a lot of things that we teach beginners that we would not recommend for experienced players. That said, this is the novice/beginner forum. Should I change my mind in that context or bid what I think is right? Nah - bid what I think is right, every time. How else do you learn?

 

I remember once on BBO opening a 12-14 1N with 4-2-2-5 shape, the one 5422 shape that most strongly argues for opening 1C, and we got a great score for keeping them out of 4H. I am not saying that opening 1N will always work on such hands but I do remember that the opponent on that occasion was extremely annoyed with me. "You must open 1C with that! You have no rebid problems!" That was at best a neutral argument: Neither do I have any rebid problems after opening 1N. If he were honest, his annoyance stemmed more from the fact that he had been effectively pre-empted than it had to do with the technical merits of my bid.

[PhilG007]

w/w imps ACOL 4 card majors 12-14NT

 

[hv=pc=n&n=sj3hk4dat53cajt76]133|100[/hv]

 

 

 

I opened this 1NT, thinking it was relatively obvious due to the rebid problem after 1 club 1M, but i've looked at the traveller afterwards and only 2 of the other 17 norths have done the same, everyone else went for 1 club opening so wondering if my judgement was off or not basically!

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Eagles

 

edit: we are dealer

 

I would not even think of opening 1NT on this hand,even if playing a 12-14 For one thing the

shape of the hand is unbalanced 5-4-2-2 is a suit distribution. I would open 1♦ then rebid 2♣

showing a minor 2 suiter and 14 pts max. To open NTs on this hand is to go down among the dead men (!) :(

[mycroft]

Unfortunately, the way I play it is that 1♦ then 2♣ is "almost forcing, good to almost great hand". So that is right out.

 

Again, I'm not an Acol person, I'm a K/S person. 1♦ on this hand, playing K/S, is approaching PLM (partnership-limiting manoeuvre). 1♣ is arguable. Other systems are - other systems.

 

One benefit of 1NT is that of the opponents have the majors - which they frequently do, and which 1♦ is catering for - they have to go looking at the 2 level.

[suleiman22]

I like 1♣ with the systems I play. What if opps have ridiculous spades? You could go down hard in NT. 1♣ seems safer and if partner is weak you are fine.

Suleiman

[Vampyr]

I would open 1♦ then rebid 2♣ showing a minor 2 suiter and 14 pts max.

 

An Acol player would never do this.