you will disagree with me on this one

[Fluffy]

[hv=pc=n&s=sa5hk73dq98652ckq&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1h2dpp2hp3dp4hp]133|200[/hv]

 

You don't need to agree with previous actions, but explain what you would have done then. Match point scoring.

Edited August 30, 2013 by inquiry
fix it so the deal is shown as south, not east

[RSClyde]

Apparently I'm missing something here. What other than a 2♦ overcall and subsequent passing could possibly be right?

[Fluffy]

you are south, not east, your partner opens the bidding.

[ggwhiz]

My partner has a semi-worm for the 4♥ bid and something to say along the way if we can make slam.

[PhilKing]

Slam is good opposite a powerhouse such as ♠xxx ♥Axxxxx ♦- ♣Axxx, so I must be worth a move. I'll just keycard and pot it.

 

The reality is that slam should be frigid here after pard jumps to game.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=sa5hk73dq98652ckq&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1h2dpp2hp3dp4hp]133|200|

 

You don't need to agree with previous actions, but explain what you would have done then. Match point scoring.

[/hv]

Slam is good opposite a powerhouse such as ♠xxx ♥Axxxxx ♦- ♣Axxx, so I must be worth a move. I'll just keycard and pot it. The reality is that slam should be frigid here after pard jumps to game.

Agree with bidding so far and PhilKing is persuasive that slam is likely. Hence IMO 4N = 10, 5♥ = 9, 6♥ = 8, Pass = 5.

[the hog]

4S cue. I cannot see the logic in B'wood here.

[mike777]

rkc, kickback ...whatever don't pass I have a giant hand.

[Free]

My first thought was an easy pass because it will be difficult to get rid of partner's losers. After reading the replies of some respectable players I adjusted my opinion, although I still think it's borderline. Perhaps I'm too pessimistic today.

[cloa513]

Slam is good opposite a powerhouse such as ♠xxx ♥Axxxxx ♦- ♣Axxx, so I must be worth a move. I'll just keycard and pot it.

 

The reality is that slam should be frigid here after pard jumps to game.

Why hasn't partner put in cue with such a hand? I think clear pass. He has something like ♠Qxx ♥ AQJxxx ♦x ♣Axx or even worse- it explains the 2♥ rebid- a bid of a defensive hand.

[mike777]

Why hasn't partner put in cue with such a hand? I think clear pass. He has something like ♠Qxx ♥ AQJxxx ♦x ♣Axx or even worse- it explains the 2♥ rebid- a bid of a defensive hand.

 

 

ok but I would x with that hand

 

I x with worse

 

hence the problem

 

I x very often with short d, very often

 

hence the problem

[Fluffy]

3♦ does not promise support, it shows a penalty double of 2♦ with no clear direction, partner won't have just ♥Axxxxx I think

[gnasher]

Why hasn't partner put in cue with such a hand? I think clear pass. He has something like ♠Qxx ♥ AQJxxx ♦x ♣Axx or even worse- it explains the 2♥ rebid- a bid of a defensive hand.

Why wouldn't he double 2♦ with that?

[Finch]

I agree 3♦ doesn't show heart support, it shows uncertainty.

Is it game forcing, or can you pass 3H? I have about 50 pages of notes on competitive auctions, and they don't cover this one.

I think it ought to be game forcing (otherwise you bid 3H or 2NT) but is partner sure of that?

 

That affects the meaning of partner's 4H bid.

 

if partner is on the same page as me he has long hearts and nothing extra. Why not Qxx AQJxxxx x Jx ?

(that's an evil construction on which 5H is off)

 

I agree with moving but I don't see the point of keycarding. You know partner has 1 keycard and the queen, what are you going to learn?

[PhilKing]

I agree 3♦ doesn't show heart support, it shows uncertainty.

Is it game forcing, or can you pass 3H? I have about 50 pages of notes on competitive auctions, and they don't cover this one.

I think it ought to be game forcing (otherwise you bid 3H or 2NT) but is partner sure of that?

 

That affects the meaning of partner's 4H bid.

 

Even if 3♦ is logically game forcing, a jump to 4♥ does not show a bad hand, the way I play it. It shows good hearts and a respectable hand for me.

 

Oh, and I would open 3♥ on your example hand, a la Townsend.

[jdeegan]

:P 4♠. Slam is very likely unless we are off tricks to two minor suit aces. The following 11 HCP hand actually offers some play for seven.

♠xxx

♥AQJxxxx

♦void

♣Axx

The first step is a 4♠ cue bid which should locate the ♣ ace, which is about all we need for six. Failing to have that, partner needs a ♦ void and the ♠ king. It will be up to him/her to bid slam holding that. A high percentage grand is unlikely, but not altogether impossible given the auction so far.

♠Kxx

♥AQ10xxxx

♦void

♣Axx

 

Does it really matter what 3♦ meant? It was forcing. It sounded strong. You likely had a penalty pass of 2♦, therefore not much heart support, usually. In the face of this, partner jumped to game in hearts. Bidding is a conversation not a bunch of encrypted messages.

[RSClyde]

:P 4♠. Slam is very likely unless we are off tricks to two minor suit aces. The following 11 HCP hand actually offers some play for seven.

♠xxx

♥AQJxxxx

♦void

♣Axx

The first step is a 4♠ cue bid which should locate the ♣ ace, which is about all we need for six. Failing to have that, partner needs a ♦ void and the ♠ king. It will be up to him/her to bid slam holding that. A high percentage grand is unlikely, but not altogether impossible given the auction so far.

♠Kxx

♥AQ10xxxx

♦void

♣Axx

 

Does it really matter what 3♦ meant? It was forcing. It sounded strong. You likely had a penalty pass of 2♦, therefore not much heart support, usually. In the face of this, partner jumped to game in hearts. Bidding is a conversation not a bunch of encrypted messages.

If all you care about is aces, why not just key card?

[PhilKing]

You don't need to agree with previous actions, but explain what you would have done then. Match point scoring.

 

Returning to the beginning, my experience is that passing on hands like this is often wrong. You can underwrite a heart game, and have great cards for slam.

 

So at teams, I prefer to show a good raise. But this is matchpoints, so pass is fine - you will get 800 more than half the time, which even when slam is on should be a good board.

[RSClyde]

I agree 3♦ doesn't show heart support, it shows uncertainty.

Is it game forcing, or can you pass 3H? I have about 50 pages of notes on competitive auctions, and they don't cover this one.

I think it ought to be game forcing (otherwise you bid 3H or 2NT) but is partner sure of that?

 

That affects the meaning of partner's 4H bid.

 

if partner is on the same page as me he has long hearts and nothing extra. Why not Qxx AQJxxxx x Jx ?

(that's an evil construction on which 5H is off)

 

I agree with moving but I don't see the point of keycarding. You know partner has 1 keycard and the queen, what are you going to learn?

 

How do we know that? We're not even sure if partner thought that 3♥ was forcing or not. But even if we know that he thought 3♥ was forcing, 4♥ isn't that limiting, I mean isn't 4♥ what you bid with Kxx, AJxxxxxx, -, xx I mean that hand barely even opened at the one level. Yes opposite your disaster hand, 5♥ will be too high, but you'll be too high no matter how you proceed as long as you're bidding again. I fail to see how his previous bidding has precluded him holding the club ace or a diamond void and key card will sort this out.

 

I really don't understand the reluctance with RKC on hands like this. Yes, there is a difference between Axx(x) of clubs and Ax when partner lacks the spade king, but nothing will differentiate those two hands, it's not like partner cue bids clubs only with Axx but not Ax. Beyond that, which is probably impossible to determine, what do you need to know that RKC can't tell you?

[RSClyde]

Returning to the beginning, my experience is that passing on hands like this is often wrong. You can underwrite a heart game, and have great cards for slam.

 

So at teams, I prefer to show a good raise. But this is matchpoints, so pass is fine - you will get 800 more than half the time, which even when slam is on should be a good board.

My issue with starting with a pass is that I really can't sit for a run out. Of course I guess I can just bid 4♥ then if it comes to that, then hopefully the slam waters haven't become muddy.

[jdeegan]

If all you care about is aces, why not just key card?

:P 1. Very distinct possibility of a diamond void in partners hand

2. Spade cue bid allows me to locate specifically the club ace

3. A grand is still a possibility, though somewhat remote

4. Spade king is as good as the ace of clubs

5. Disaster hands like:

♠KQx

♥QJ10xxxx

♦A

♣J10

are low probability, and not, imo, worth worrying about.

[RSClyde]

:P 1. Very distinct possibility of a diamond void in partners hand

2. Spade cue bid allows me to locate specifically the club ace

3. A grand is still a possibility, though somewhat remote

4. Spade king is as good as the ace of clubs

5. Disaster hands like:

♠KQx

♥QJ10xxxx

♦A

♣J10

are low probability, and not, imo, worth worrying about.

1) He can show the diamond void as part of his RKC response.

2) The ace of clubs is a key card. Are you saying that you wouldn't want to be in 6♥ without the ace of clubs even if he had the others?

3) Can't we bid grands after key carding?

4) That is certainly not true. With the ace of clubs we may well have no black suit losers (if he has at least 3 clubs and no more than 2 additional low black cards to ruff). With no ace of clubs and the king of spades we definitely have a black suit loser. This also seems to be a non-sequitur, if partner cue bids 5♦ over your spade cue bid, how will you know if he has the K of spades or not?

5) Unlikely? Sure. So on what hand will cue bidding work, where key card fails?

[Cyberyeti]

Kickback 4♠. This is only going seriously wrong if overcaller has AKJ10x and we're losing 2 diamonds.

[Fluffy]

I reached slam, prospects looked good when ♣A was led, but a diamond ruff was quickly switched into for 1 down. Partner had

 

♠xx

♥AJ10xxxx

♦A

♣Jxx

[PhilKing]

I reached slam, prospects looked good when ♣A was led, but a diamond ruff was quickly switched into for 1 down. Partner had

 

♠xx

♥AJ10xxxx

♦A

♣Jxx

 

Why did pard jump to 4♥?