do you accept a short suit game try?

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=st65hk542dat985cq&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=ppp1sp2sp3hp?]133|200[/hv]

Match points

 

3♥ is a short suit game try, do you accept?

 

63.73% game :) but this board wasn't one of the best.

[mike777]

sure esp at this vul I would accept anytype of invite.

[mikeh]

depends on style: i.e. what kinds of hands will partner hold for a game try rather than just bidding it?

 

In the old days (for me), I would accept here because while I have just about the worst major suit holding, my hand is overall just great.

 

More recently (ie. 15 years or so:)), I would bid 3♠ because I only make game tries when I need a good raise AND nothing wasted. With other hands, at imps, I just bid and let them find the defence to beat me if they can. Being too precise in your descriptions can cost....I'd estimate that against reasonable defenders, making a descriptive bid costs about 1/2 a trick (this isn't the least bit based on any real analysis..it's a gut feeling).

 

I'd accept even with this Kxxx in hearts, if I had the 4th spade or Qxx Kxxx Axxxx x (I don't limit raise on that). But I really hate my trumps.

 

So: tell me how your partner judges to invite, as opposed to frequently blasting, and I will pick one or other option :D

[jillybean]

This is Matchpoints, I left that detail out when I first posted the hand sorry.

 

I'm not sure *how* we judge to invite, it is a good question. I would expect a 14-17 type hand, partner has told us they have shape.

A 4S rebid is a maximum type bid, more shape, less points, it may not make. Partner has S3N available if they have slam interest.

[TylerE]

Yea, i'd accept.

[Fluffy]

I don't play short suit tries often but I am sure I'd decline with this without thinking twice

[TylerE]

deleted

[akwoo]

Unless your opponents have 10 clubs, in which case one of the might well have bid, you are covering 3 losers for partner (a diamond and two clubs). Partner should have a 6 loser hand for an invitation to game, so you should generally accept with a 3 loser hand. Now losing trick count is not the most accurate, but you should consider that your K♥ is not actually useless here; it's half a trick and also useful for keeping hearts from being forced.

 

If partner is ♠AKxxx ♥x ♦xxx ♣AKxx you still have play on a non-diamond lead, and if partner is ♠AKxxx ♥x ♦KQx ♣xxxx game is a very good.

 

That being said, this is one of those situations where I feel much more comfortable accepting if playing 2-way game tries, where partner makes a strong suit game try in clubs with the first hand and a short suit game try in hearts with a somewhat stronger version of the second.

[Siegmund]

Between the HK and the only-three-small-trumps, I would bid 3S almost automatically.

 

I could be wrong, of course, especially if partner has something like AKx in clubs already... but I would not count on covering 2 club losers, that is for sure.

[Mbodell]

Do you play drury, and if so, how aggressively do you drury? I feel like you have a monster for having not drury'd and then partner has invited. On the other hand Kxxx is a bad holding opposite a short suit try. But Txx xxxx AT98x Q is a 2♠ call, at least for me, and I'd be pretty stoked if partner did the heart short suit trial over that. Making the hearts Kxxx instead of xxxx and everything else the same doesn't make your hand worse. So I think I'd accept. If I didn't play drury, now I'd be a little less sure, but I'd still probably accept (if partner doesn't want an accept, the 2♠ contract was available). I guess if you didn't play drury but did play constructive raise then maybe you don't have enough.

[mike777]

given we are a passed hand, denied more than whatever 2s shows, and pard invites I am a bit surprised on how many don't accept.

 

I assume we had a way to show 4card support as a passed hand and denied that.

 

I assume 2s can be 100% crap as a passed hand.

 

I mean just how junky can short suit 3h be that 4s is not worth a shot?

 

 

add a random Q...anywhere, and I have a full opener.

[gwnn]

4S for me :) this is just such a maximum with the long diamonds and club shortness. The HK is likely to be close to worthless but it might stop them from forcing declarer at will.

[Endymion77]

Against an unknown partner, I accept because I have a maximum raise and I would raise to 2S even without the HK. After the ssgt, the CQ rates to be valuable as partner probably has length in that suit and even the HK might provide a useful trick (stop the defense from forcing declarer). You don't just evaluate your holding in the short suit when thinking about accepting a game try.

 

Against a regular partner, I would probably pass because they tend to just bid game at these colors, so a game try would really need a perfect hand (Qxx xxxx AQxxx x maybe?).

[cherdano]

Unless your opponents have 10 clubs, in which case one of the might well have bid, you are covering 3 losers for partner (a diamond and two clubs).

Some opponents lead trumps. Some opponents switch to trumps once they see dummy.

[lycier]

I can't accept,especially when red vs white.

 

 

In the face of the pd's shortness, as the secondary honor,♥K have lost its original value, I think the damage on the evaluation is a never healed scars.

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=st65hk542dat985cq&n=saqj43h3dkqj6ca53&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=ppp1sp2sp3hp3sppp]266|200[/hv]

 

We do play drury, south is a tad light by our standards.

[jillybean]

delete

[mgoetze]

♠K and a doubleton club in South would make for a fine game. I will just blast it with North.

[cherdano]

Definitely just bid game with the North hand - if partner has just one useful card, it's already on a finesse. Plus, you don't want to tip them off to the right lead.

[manudude03]

Never mind constructions, we've all been in worse slams than this one, so yes, the North hand is worth a direct 4S. Make South's king of hearts into spades and slam is excellent, albeit the south hand having a perfecto.

[CSGibson]

I accept with South. I blast with North. I would drury originally with south (I have what looks like 3 cover cards in spades, that's a limit raise).

[mikeh]

[hv=pc=n&s=st65hk542dat985cq&n=saqj43h3dkqj6ca53&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=ppp1sp2sp3hp3sppp]266|200[/hv]

 

We do play drury, south is a tad light by our standards.

North bids game. He has a huge hand...not merely a 17 count but a huge 17. That diamond J is worth a lot since it solidifies the suit. Put another way, so,ewhat simplistically, the N hand has a LTC of 5...2 tricks better than a normal opening. Partner has the values to rasie a normal minimum to the 2 level and we are 2 tricks stronger than needed...we bid game.

 

Note that AQJxx xx KQJ Axx (I think too strong for a 15-17 1N) is a full LTC weaker and hence wouldn't blast game.

[Mbodell]

I accept with South. I blast with North. I would drury originally with south (I have what looks like 3 cover cards in spades, that's a limit raise).

 

Yeah, this is one of those ATB where both sides get full blame. South should have accepted the invite. North should have blasted. +200 in 3♠ making 5, "unlucky".

[aguahombre]

Good grief. With that North hand, if partner accepted my ???invite??? I would think we had missed slam. :rolleyes:

 

Maybe that was North's intent...to raise 3S to 4 and to Wood over 4. Trouble with that would be if South broke tempo.

[jillybean]

As I said in the OP, not one of our better boards. :)

The only redeeming factor was I made an extra trick than the other pairs who stopped in 3.