double after multi 2D

[waychan]

double after multi 2D

What follow mean?

2♦ Pass 2/3♥ Dble = ?

2♦ Pass 2/3♠ Dble = ?

2♦ 2♥ Dble = ?

2♦ 2♠ Dble = ?

2♦ Dble 2/3♥ Dble = ?

2♦ Dble 2/3♠ Dble = ?

thank all

[Chamaco]

2♦ Pass 2/3♥ Dble = ?

2♦ Pass 2/3♠ Dble = ?

 

Depends from the meaning of 2/3H - 2/3S .

 

A common scheme for responding to Multi uses:

- 2H as including: negative hand OR good/bad hands with tolerance for spades but not hearts (this response is quite common)

- 2S: pass/correct with good/bad hands with tolerance for hearts (can stop in 3H) but not spades

- 3H = pass or correct in a major (but this one is far from universally adopted).

- 3S: it is a much less standardized bid. I play it as xfer to 3NT ehereas the response of 3NT shows a pass/correct to 4M, but I doubt this is standard.

 

In both cases I'd play the double of a 2H/S as takeout of the suit bid by responder.

Double of 3H = also takeout of the suit bid by responder.

 

Instead, the double over 3S depends from the meaning of 3S.

 

2♦ 2♥ Dble = ?

2♦ 2♠ Dble = ?

 

Meckstroth Rodwell play it as "pass or correct", which is simply a sort of negative double, with strength adjusted according to the fact that pard is weak.

 

2♦ Dble 2/3♥ Dble = ?

2♦ Dble 2/3♠ Dble = ?

 

This sequence depends on the meaning of the first double:

this is also played in various manners by many pairs.

According to the defense chosen vs Multi, it may show:

- hearts

- spades

- a generic balanced hand

- a 5 card major

- probably many more choices

 

Obviously the meaning of the second double depends on the info delivered by the first double.

[waychan]

2/3♥♠ = Pass or Correct

Double 2♦ = balance 13-15 or 19+

[hv=n=saqt2h85dj972ca42&w=s75haqj973d854cq3&e=s9hkt62dakq63cj75&s=skj8643h4dtckt986]399|300|the south double 2D-Pass-2S or not, make double-swing[/hv]

[Chamaco]

2/3♥♠ = Pass or Correct

Double 2♦ = balance 13-15 or 19+

 

 

In this case, I'd play takeout dbls in all situations.

[Chamaco]

[hv=n=saqt2h85dj972ca42&w=s75haqj973d854cq3&e=s9hkt62dakq63cj75&s=skj8643h4dtckt986]399|300|the south double 2D-Pass-2S or not, make double-swing[/hv]

 

Sorry I do not understand the bidding.

I assume west is dealer.

I would assume a reasonable bidding could be:

 

2D-pass-2S*-pass

3H- X** - 4H - 4S

pass-pass-?***

 

*good hand for H but not for spades

 

**Here North MUST make a prebalancing double, even with marginal values, because he knows East has a god hand for H but not spades.

 

***here, at least NV, East should probably take an insurance and bid 5H, but I am influenced by seeing all 4 hands

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

More difficult for NS is if East slightly overbids with 2NT, which in most partnerships show game interest regardless of opener's major:

 

2D-pass-2NT(*)-pass

3C(**)- pass(***)- 4H - all pass

*Relay with game interest

**3C = goodish hand with hearts

*** Now, with marginal values, and with East having showed substantial values, the likelihood pard is broke is greater. NS will be stolen. It happens.

[helene_t]

There are different ways of playing the double of 2♦. Unless you play transfer defence it can probably be any 5431-shape or minor suit one-suiter too strong for a simple overcall (strong major one-suiters use a strong jump overcall and strong two-suiters may use some kind of Leaping Michael's) , but the primary meaning is either:

"Meckwell": 13-16 ballanced. If you can't safely ballance after a preemptive raise but can't afford to keep passing either, it makes sense to show your values immediately. Note that this is quite safe since your double usually does not force partner to bid: the chance that they want to play 2♦ doubled is small.

"Traditional": 16-18 balanced. Just short of 2NT.

"Something I learned from The Hog": T/O on spades. The idea is that you often have a ballanced hand that could double one of the major suits for take-out. If you can double hearts, it is reasonably safe to wait to the next round since partner will still be able to bid spades at a safe level. If you can double spades, however, it is safer to do so immediately.

 

In the Netherlands, many pairs play double as minor-suit-oriented, or double as showing at least four diamonds. This means that you will often have to pass (unless you have the agreement that an overcall of 2M shows a take-out on the other major). Pass as wait-and-see is playable against pairs who don't raise there partner's multi preemptively because they are afraid that it is the strong version of multi.

 

(2♦)-double-(whatever)-double: This is take-out in some partnerships and penalty in others. IMHO take-out on 2♥ should not promise four spades, three is acceptable. Note that it is by no means obvious what "whatever" means since different partnerships have different defence against the double on 2♦, and your agreements should probably be adjusted accordingly.

 

2♦-(2M)-double: pass or correct. It is possible that opener has the same major as overcaller.

 

2♦-(3x)-double: penalty. With support for both majors you can bid e.g. 3♥ over 3m. Over 3M you can bid the other major, since overcaller has a 6-card so partner has the other major.

[Chamaco]

There are different ways of playing the double of 2♦.

Add to the list the meaning of double showing a 5 card major:

this is the concept of "Multi vs Multi" and of Granovetter defense.

 

Advancer will bid just as if pard opened a Multi 2D, keeping in mind the doubler has an opening hand and not a weak 2.

 

"Something I learned from The Hog": T/O on spades.

 

This is mentioned in "Preempts from A to Z" by Anderson/Zenkel as "Forrester defense".

[whereagles]

> "Something I learned from The Hog": T/O on spades.

 

I used to play a similar scheme, which in my club was (rightly or wrongly) dubbed as "collings defense". It went like

 

2D dbl = take-out of spades (1444 or similar)

2D 2H = take-out of hearts (4144 or similar)

2D 2S = natural

 

With 12-15 balanced you'd have to pass and wait for developments. With 5 hearts you also have to pass, though you could risk a double if the hand is suitable.

 

I consider this scheme similar to meckwell in effectiveness, though meckwell is a bit easier to remember.

[inquiry]

double after multi 2D

What follow mean?

2♦ Pass 2/3♥ Dble = ?

2♦ Pass 2/3♠ Dble = ?

2♦ 2♥ Dble = ?

2♦ 2♠ Dble = ?

2♦ Dble 2/3♥ Dble = ?

2♦ Dble 2/3♠ Dble = ?

thank all

I play multi-verus-mult.. if nothing else it is fun, here goes....

 

2♦ Pass 2/3♥ Dble = TAKEOUT

2♦ Pass 2/3♠ Dble = TAKEOUT

2♦ 2♥ Dble = Takeout, partner passes if hearts is his suit

2♦ 2♠ Dble = Takeout, partner passes if spades is his suit

2♦ Dble 2/3♥ Dble = Takeout, see my double of 2♦

2♦ Dble 2/3♠ Dble = Takeout, partner passes if he has spades

 

what is not show...

2♦-DBL <<--- major one suiter, balanced 19-21, or three suiter, in other words, the same meaning as most multi 2!D bids....

 

This affects some of the other auctions, as you can see... :-)

 

Ben