An auction

[Siegmund]

As shown in the poll...

 

Your hand is something like ♠Qxxx ♥Jxx ♦K ♣AKxxx. You deal, and the auction goes

 

1C-P-1H-2D

X!-3D-3S-P

 

X = 3-card heart support. Very good but unfamiliar partner. What does he want you to do now?

[rogerclee]

A little esoteric but it's possible that in theory the best meaning for 3S here is an artificial club raise (aka stopper ask).

 

Anyway he seems to have 4 spades, and I have four spades, so let's bid four spades. I think he's probably 4-4M but if he did it with 4-5M to get to a 4-4 spade fit that's fine with me. If he intended this as something else undiscussed it's time to have a discussion about being practical.

[the hog]

I will bid 4S

[Cyberyeti]

A little esoteric but it's possible that in theory the best meaning for 3S here is an artificial club raise (aka stopper ask).

 

Anyway he seems to have 4 spades, and I have four spades, so let's bid four spades. I think he's probably 4-4M but if he did it with 4-5M to get to a 4-4 spade fit that's fine with me. If he intended this as something else undiscussed it's time to have a discussion about being practical.

 

Depends what you play X of 3♦ as. For us this would show 4♠ although we don't play support doubles so would have bid 2♥ instead.

 

For us it's a 3N probe initially, whether it suggests a part diamond stop or no diamond stop or a diamond stop but no spade stop is unclear. If we bid 3N and partner moves again, it was a cue agreeing hearts.

[MrAce]

 

X!-3D-3S-P

 

X = 3-card heart support. Very good but unfamiliar partner. What does he want you to do now?

 

Pd is likely

 

a- to hold 4 card spades

 

b-willing to play 3 NT but has no room to ask ♦ stopper, with or without ♣ support, former is more likely.

 

It will come down to what Cyber said, about what the double would show, then 3 ♠ shows other. But since you mentioned unfamiliar pd, i agree with Roger that practically he should have 4 card spades.

 

One can argue that 4♦ Choice Of Games (4 major-5 cl) cue would work perfectly here, which i agree, but in another hand we would want to spare the same cue for something else.

 

 

 

[Siegmund]

At the table, I bid 4S, and partner thought forever and leaped to 6H. When I put down the dummy he was annoyed I hadn't cuebid 4C. He thought hearts "obviously" was already agreed as trump.

 

I can see why not everyone devotes bids to finding a second fit after already finding one, but I don't think one can afford to always assume hearts are trump on this sequence.

 

As many of you, I assumed it was a generic natural probe probably with four hearts. Having it automatically become a cuebid if partner moves again is a good extension, in a regular partnership.

[gszes]

I would have thought it standard that when using spt x a x of 3d would show 4s/4h

since the spt x does not "show" a heart fit for sure to both partners and that fact

makes it difficult to :assume: we have found a heart fit. While 3s might be a cue bid

we would normally not find that out until later in the bidding. IMO the 3s has to assume

we are minimum for our bidding up to date and that having failed to find a major suit

trump fit we need to explore for NT next. What would the N hand do with a holding

like AKQ Kxxx xx Qxx (over the 3d bid)??

 

 

[cherdano]

As many of you, I assumed it was a generic natural probe probably with four hearts. Having it automatically become a cuebid if partner moves again is a good extension, in a regular partnership.

Disagree. When we are looking for slam, we still want to play in our 4-4 spade fit rather than in our 4-4 heart fit.

[inquiry]

There is a school of thought that by bidding past 3♥ (other than a raise of opener's suit) responder is promising five hearts, and a double of 3♦ would show only four hearts and looking for another strain to play in (which might be 3♦X). It is obvious your partner who leaped to slam in hearts thought 3♠ fixed the heart suit as trumps and started cue-bidding. He could be right, but only if that was your agreement. The meaning of 3♠ is tied to the meaning of what a double of 3♦ would have meant. There are a couple of possible meanings for a double of 3♦ on this auction.

 

1) Penalty, we don't have a good enough fit in hearts

2) Maximal double to invite to 4♥ where 3♥ would be just competitive (could also be beginning of heart slam try).

3) To show that an adequate fit has not been found yet, and to seek another strain to play (90% chance for 4♠ holding, if not a club fit).

 

The meaning of 3♠ could vary depending on what you play a double (which didn't happen). My partnerships meta agreement is that after a fit has been found and the opponents bid at the three level in the suit just below our agreed upon suit that a maximal double. However, we also agreed that a support double does not establish a "fit". So our double would not be maximal here. My partner with an undisclosed four card spade suit would DOUBLE 3♦.

 

Three spades, by default is more or less game forcing. I don't think we have a fit yet (I don't mind playing in moysian fit but we may have a better one). I would not take 3♠ as a cue-bid for hearts, because the frequency of that is too low to be as useful as a stab at 3NT. However, if partner pulls 3NT, then it would change the meaning of 3♠ from 3NT try to slam try in hearts. I happen to like Rogerclee's suggested diamond stopper ask (see below). If you play the double as option #3, this direct 3♠ has to show a club fit because you don't have five hearts -- and you don't have four spades -- and you are not stacked in diamonds because you would pass and wait for partner to reopen with a double.

 

So for me, partner wanted me to bid 3NT with a diamond stopper. So my answer is other in the poll.

[jdeegan]

:P 4♣. Partner has a game going hand, and he has taken control. My hand is a POS. The stiff ♦ king is bad news, for sure. Otherwise, it is a rather soft 10 HCP with a stiff ♦. No ♦ stop, no 3 NT. This leaves 4♣ as, imo, the only possible bid. At the very least, my beloved forward opponent now knows I have 3♥ and at least 5♣.

 

If partner has the awkward 4-4-3-2 with (as we expect) no ♦ stop, then he will properly consider himself to have been screwed. Over 4♣, he does have a 4♦ bid available. This should work to solve his problem. My most likely response to this would be 4♥. With six ♣ I would bid 5♣. With 4♠ I would bid 4♠.

 

The source of all of the confusion among the forum commenters is simple. The support double does NOT confirm ♥ as the trump suit. It does not confirm a trump suit in other support double auctions, and it does not do so here. Plain and simple, J762 opposite 943 is NOT a proper trump suit. J762 opposite 9543 or J7652 opposite 943 will do in a pinch.