1S or DBL?

[kgr]

(1♣)-?

Your options:

- 1♠=4c♠, longer ♦

- DBL=takeout

 

What do you bid with following hands?:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sat86hj85dakq83c4]133|100[/hv]

I prefer 1♠ (and DBL for TO later if possible (f.i 2♣/3♣) ); my partner prefers a direct DBL

 

[hv=pc=n&s=skt52haq2da6432c5]133|100[/hv]

Here we both prefer DBL

[akhare]

+1 for your choice given the parameters of the gadget.

[straube]

I'm sorry it's not what you asked but these are terrible options. The 1S overcall is too important to be limited to 4S/5D shapes and you and your partner are having (justifiable) qualms about bidding 1S with 4351 so it won't even handle all 4S/5D shapes.

[blackshoe]

For me:

 

(1♣)-

X: takeout, possibly both majors with longer/stronger hearts (ELC)

1♦/1♥/1♠/1NT: natural (8 or more, 4+ cards if a suit, 15-18 balanced if 1NT)

2♣: diamonds and spades, longer or stronger (or both) diamonds, at least 5-4, any strength

2♦: diamonds and hearts, as above

2M: natural, WJO

 

(1♦)-

X: takeout, possibly both majors with longer/stronger hearts (ELC)

1♥/1♠/1NT/2♣: natural (8 or more, 4+ cards if a major, 5+ cards and 10+ points if ♣, 15-18 balanced if 1NT)

2♦: clubs and spades, longer or stronger (or both) clubs, at least 5-4, any strength

2♥: clubs and hearts, as above

2♠: natural, WJO

[kgr]

+1 for your choice given the parameters of the gadget.

thank you for the answer :)

[kgr]

Not really what I asked..

I'm sorry it's not what you asked but these are terrible options. The 1S overcall is too important to be limited to 4S/5D shapes and you and your partner are having (justifiable) qualms about bidding 1S with 4351 so it won't even handle all 4S/5D shapes.

1♥ is transfer for ♠. This handles the normal 1♠ overcall, but is unlimited or can be 2-suited.

For me:

 

(1♣)-

X: takeout, possibly both majors with longer/stronger hearts (ELC)

1♦/1♥/1♠/1NT: natural (8 or more, 4+ cards if a suit, 15-18 balanced if 1NT)

2♣: diamonds and spades, longer or stronger (or both) diamonds, at least 5-4, any strength

2♦: diamonds and hearts, as above

2M: natural, WJO

 

(1♦)-

X: takeout, possibly both majors with longer/stronger hearts (ELC)

1♥/1♠/1NT/2♣: natural (8 or more, 4+ cards if a major, 5+ cards and 10+ points if ♣, 15-18 balanced if 1NT)

2♦: clubs and spades, longer or stronger (or both) clubs, at least 5-4, any strength

2♥: clubs and hearts, as above

2♠: natural, WJO

..What are you bidding with the 2 hands in OP given your or our agreements?

For us:

(1♣)-

X: takeout, including standard 1NT overcall

1♦/1♥: transfer

1♠: 4c♠, longer ♦

1NT: ♥ and ♦, longer ♦

2♣: both majors, 4-4 possible (depending on strength)

2♦: diamonds, IJO

2M: natural, WJO

 

(1♦)-

X: takeout, including standard 1NT overcall

1♥/1♠: natural

1NT: ♣ and ♥, normally longer ♣

2♣: 4c♠, longer ♣

2♦: both majors

2M: natural, WJO

3♣: IJO

[straube]

I would double with both hands.

 

I've looked at similar defensive structures and decided that they weren't for me. I didn't like not being able to overcall 1D. For example if I have diamonds and clubs (opener's suit) then I can't overcall in diamonds unless it's worth a 2-level bid. I can't overcall something like Qxx xx AKxxx xxx either. I can't overcall 1N naturally and if I have a bigger balanced hand than 16-18 I suppose I have to double and rebid 2N with it. I take away partner's raise, too. If I overcall 1S with 4S/5D and partner bids 2D does that show any values or not? I also suspect that if the opponents have time they could arrange some really good defenses against the 1D and 1H transfer bids. These bids give our side extra room, but on average this room is going to be more useful to the opponents. Off the top of my head...

 

1C (1H)

..............P-trapping etc?

..............dbl-5 hearts

.............1S-4 hearts