Bidding on this one

[eagles123]

Hi Guys,

 

[hv=pc=n&w=skq86ha8752d9432c&e=st3hkqt3dkqjt5ct4&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=p1ddr1sp2sdp3hppp]266|200[/hv]

 

 

thought this was quite a tricky one, we ended up getting slightly over half on this making 3H + 2 as NS had a club game on, but obviously would have been good if we'd reached 4H.

 

I have to say this was made a lot more difficult by souths imo stupid dbl on aj7 j64 6 kq8762, but how would you asses our bidding on this one: I think we both thought we had kind of stretched our bidding already so didn't go to game but should either of us have done more?

 

as a side, what should west's 2nd dbl be here? I bid it meaning it as kinda suggesting pens, but is it takeout?

 

Thanks,

 

Eagles

[broze]

West's second double is purely penalties. After the strength-showing redouble any double by either player should be for penalties.

 

Personally I would not have made a rdbl on the West hand. You only have 9 points, a fit for partner and an easy 1♥ bid.

 

On this auction it seems to you (West) that p is pulling your penalty double with extra shape. Given this fact and your big double fit, and your void together with what is very likely a 9 card ♥ fit, I think you can just bid game despite what I expect you thought were wasted ♠ values in your hand.

 

I actually don't mind South's dbl :P (though I would obv never ever bid 2♠ with his hand lol).

[eagles123]

Thanks,

 

it's still quite an inexperienced partnership so situations like this haven't been discussed too much.

 

I am still quite bad at doubles, i've been influenced by Roger Lee's series on BBO a lot, but thought just the whole shape was wrong there: evidently not!

 

Eagles

[broze]

<snip>

 

Well, I'm certainly not saying that I think double is best or even that I would do it at the table, just that I think it's a reasonable call. I would actually overcall 2♣ but only because of the destructive effect (1♦)-2♣ can have on the opponents' bidding - it often makes finding the best Major suit fit difficult.

[Cyberyeti]

What would 1♦-X-2♥ be for you ? I'm not sure this is the right heart suit to bid this on, but it does show 9 of your cards in one bid.

 

W should bid 4♥, he can visualise something pretty close to what you have (prob the 1453/1354 version), you might suffer a diamond ruff to beat you, but 4♥ must have play.

[mycroft]

I agree with Broze - if I redouble, my next question is "what did partner lead to 2♠?", and if he pulls it, I'm expecting 0=4=6=3 or the like and bidding game. And I'm not redoubling in the first place, because we have a fit, and so they do too, and they'll find it I would assume.

[helene_t]

I am not sure if E should pass the double - W's double is penalties but he won't have 5 spades (or even 4 very good ones) since he redoubled rather than bidding 1♠.

 

I think I would bid 2♦ directly with the East hand. I can't tolerate a penalty double of 1♠ and I am too weak to pass first and then pull the double, which shows a stronger hand.

 

But since W decided to pass the 3♥ bid, presumably you don't have that agreement - W took East's delayed 3♥ bid as showing a minimum. But: it doesn't make much sense for E to bid 3♥ with a minimum in this auction. Reversing at the 3-level in what seems to be a misfit!

 

Anyway, things get a lot easier if W starts with 1♥.

[the hog]

West's double is penalties. I would have bid 1H.

[Free]

I really hate the RDbl, you have a fit for partner and you can't double every other contract. If opps bid ♣ you can't Dbl anymore.

 

This hand is one of the reasons why I've given up on a strong RDbl and use it artificially. But even when RDbl is strong, I'd just bid 1♥ with the West hand. This doesn't deny 9+HCP, it just shows 4+♥ and some values, forcing for a round.

 

For some reason your opps didn't bid their 5 or 6 card ♣ suit, not even once. Nevertheless, after 3♥ West has a clear raise to game imo. There's a double fit (9 ♥s and 8+♦s), opps definitely have some ♣ since partner can't have it all, and a (partly) cross ruff will get rid of possible losers.

[neilkaz]

I'll make a few short replies to this thread.

 

First of all, here's how I'd hope to see the bidding go in my partnership if there was no interference.

 

1♦-1♥-2♥-4♥

 

For me, raising 1♥ to 2♥ when there's no comp. is based on 4 trumps at least 95% of the time and West with a known 9 card trump fit and a secondary ♦ fit and void has enough to just bid 4♥.

 

Should our bids really be much different with the interference here?

[neilkaz]

South's double on ♠AJ7 ♥J64 ♦6 ♣KQ8762 is most certainly not my style. It risks playing in a 43 major fit while missing a 10 card ♣ fit. Perhaps South doesn't think he's good enough to o/c 2♣ but when I watch world class players they are afraid to overcall here with a 6 card suit.

 

If South overcalls 2♣ and North has a decent hand with a 5 card major, the 53 fit will be found anyhow.

 

Overcalling 1♦ with 2♣ can be quite disruptive to the opening side since they may not have 4 cards in each major and are taking a risk of ending up in a bad fit if they make a neg X. Sometimes they'll have a good hand with a 5 card major and bid it and cruise to a game they'd have bid anyhow, but other times they may not have enough points to bid at the 2 level.

[neilkaz]

I'd hope the bidding in my partnership would be just about the same with interference as without.

 

After the X, responder should bid his 5 card ♥ suit and at the 1 level this is forcing 1 rd. He shouldn't XX with only 9 hcp and a ♦ fit as well and no desire to even dream about penalizing a ♣ runout from the opps.

 

After advancer bids 1♠ I play that as a sup X situation so opener's 2♥ shows 4 card support and responder can again bid 4♥.

[Phil]

I saw a nearly identical hand in Atlanta lol in our match against Lynch. Teammates failed to game when the redoubler had a 4504 12 count and opener pulled the redouble with KQJTx of d's. Opener had a 3352 and AKx of spades however. Teammates played in 2♦. Opponents played their 5-3 heart fit.

 

I didn't like the redouble. I hated 2♦.

[neilkaz]

I saw a nearly identical hand in Atlanta lol in our match against Lynch. Teammates failed to game when the redoubler had a 4504 12 count and opener pulled the redouble with KQJTx of d's. Opener had a 3352 and AKx of spades however. Teammates played in 2♦. Opponents played their 5-3 heart fit.

 

I didn't like the redouble. I hated 2♦.

Even at your level, redoubled actions go astray. Opener's pull to 2♦ is awful. For me redouble implies no fit, and should also be forcing to at least 2nt if the opps aren't doubled. One wonders why responder passed 2♦ with a 12 count.