A monster, but is game possible?

[yunling]

[hv=pc=n&s=sajhadak6ckqt7642&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1s(10-15%205+%21S)d2s(bad%20raise)pp]133|200[/hv]

 

Your plan?

[TylerE]

5♣. More worried about missing 6 than going down in 5.

[ahydra]

5C looks the practical shot.

 

ahydra

[mr1303]

Yeah, this should show a hand that expects to make it.

[hrothgar]

We have 21 HCPs

 

The opponent's opened and raised.

 

Let's place RHO with an 11 count and LHO with a 4 count.

This means that partner has a couple of Queens, maybe a King...

 

Hard to tell what's going to e best.

Some innocuous cards like the Jack of Clubs could be incredibly valuable.

 

Others like the KQ of Hearts could be worthless if we don't have transport.

 

I would probably bid 5C, figuring that its better to be damned for being a lion than a lamb.

However, I wouldn't fault a 3♣ bid...

[steve2005]

partner likely has 0 hcp. sure maybe he has a Q if opp opened light. so unless partner can ruff something 5♣ is down.

so why not just bid what you can make 3♣?

 

you have defense so opp likely arn't making game

[mgoetze]

Let's place RHO with an 11 count and LHO with a 4 count.

OK, uhm, why? Just because we are incredibly optimistic?

[Zelandakh]

I would probably bid 5C, figuring that its better to be damned for being a lion than a lamb.

However, I wouldn't fault a 3♣ bid...

so unless partner can ruff something 5♣ is down.

so why not just bid what you can make 3♣?

If we are deciding between an overbid of 5♣ and an underbid of 3♣, shouldn't we at least consider 4♣ along the way? (or is that Gerber? :P )

[PhilG007]

South has 21 points and both opponents have come into the bidding.How many points are in the North hand(?)

If I were in the South seat,alarm bells would be sounding. Common sense is needed here. You have 21 points and

if North(as is very likely)has a Yarborough,you STILL have 21 points. It may seem cowardly but the correct action is to

pass and defend and hope to put the contract down.

[Cyberyeti]

South has 21 points and both opponents have come into the bidding.How many points are in the North hand(?)

If I were in the South seat,alarm bells would be sounding. Common sense is needed here. You have 21 points and

if North(as is very likely)has a Yarborough,you STILL have 21 points. It may seem cowardly but the correct action is to

pass and defend and hope to put the contract down.

 

Yes, but xxx, xxxxx, xx, xxx is plenty good enough to make 5♣ and will only defeat 2♠ on perfect defence, and xxx, xxxx, xxxx, xx both 3♣ and 2♠ may well make. Pass is ludicrous, the decision is 3/4/5♣.

[PhilG007]

Cyberyeti you have a poorly development sense of danger. As I said in another post on this site,

assumption is a dangerous word in bridge..the outstanding clubs could all be stacked on your

left then the next thing you will hear is DOUBLE and you can get ready with

the sackcloth and the ashes...bid your own hand..not your partner's(!) :angry:

[rhm]

When some want to bid 5♣ and others 3♣ or even Pass you can be pretty sure that 4♣ is the right bid.

After all this sequence must show a very strong hand with a long suit and asks to be raised on any excuse.

There may still be some hands where partner might pass and you will have play for game or you may go down, but on balance this bid will give the proper encouragement.

If 4♣ goes down it looks like opponents have at least a partial in the majors.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[cherdano]

When some want to bid 5♣ and others 3♣ or even Pass you can be pretty sure that 4♣ is the right bid.

After all this sequence must show a very strong hand with a long suit and asks to be raised on any excuse.

There may still be some hands where partner might pass and you will have play for game or you may go down, but on balance this bid will give the proper encouragement.

If 4♣ goes down it looks like opponents have at least a partial in the majors.

Not sure I agree with the first sentence (sometimes even the BBF crowd misevaluates a hand!) but agree with everything else. Of course partner won't know that ♦Q is essentially the card we are looking for, but he is still more likely not to have it when he passes, and more likely to have it when he raises. (Of course he will raise with ♠K or ♣A.)

[Cyberyeti]

Cyberyeti you have a poorly development sense of danger. As I said in another post on this site,

assumption is a dangerous word in bridge..the outstanding clubs could all be stacked on your

left then the next thing you will hear is DOUBLE and you can get ready with

the sackcloth and the ashes...bid your own hand..not your partner's(!) :angry:

 

I have a well developed sense of danger that I sometimes choose to ignore, and an even better sense of probabilities (I have a statistics degree) ? it's one of those hands where you will gain a lot more often than you lose if you bid. Even if you have 3 club losers (unlikely) that's only -100 doubled in 3♣ and they will often make 3M and almost always make 2M.

 

Bidding is so obvious that I can't see any non beginner passing, bidding more than 3♣ is a gamble. The question was "is game possible" which I answered with that yarborough. The more interesting decision is what to do if you bid 3♣ and they bid 3M.

[aguahombre]

Having a well developed sense of which posts convince me of things, I choose Rainer's 4♣

[johnu]

Cyberyeti you have a poorly development sense of danger. As I said in another post on this site,

assumption is a dangerous word in bridge..the outstanding clubs could all be stacked on your

left then the next thing you will hear is DOUBLE and you can get ready with

the sackcloth and the ashes...bid your own hand..not your partner's(!) :angry:

 

Yup, 3♣ could go down a couple of tricks doubled if you run into a 5 card trump stack making it too dangerous to bid. Savor your 21 points as you play them out and watch them taking tricks while

defending 2♠ and be thankful you weren't playing some level of DOUBLED club contracts. Since even the 2 level isn't entirely safe, you probably shouldn't even double or overcall 2♣. Remember, if you never bid, the opponents can never DOUBLE you.

[the hog]

Rainer's 4C makes a lot of sense to me and seems to be the best of both worlds.

[Zelandakh]

Having a well developed sense of which posts convince me of things, I choose Rainer's 4♣

Rainer's 4C makes a lot of sense to me and seems to be the best of both worlds.

Did it sound better coming from Rainer than in post #8? He even used the same argument about splitting 3♣ and 5♣.

[rhm]

Did it sound better coming from Rainer than in post #8? He even used the same argument about splitting 3♣ and 5♣.

I do not claim copyright to the 4♣ bid. :D

 

Rainer Herrmann

[ArtK78]

Yup, 3♣ could go down a couple of tricks doubled if you run into a 5 card trump stack making it too dangerous to bid. Savor your 21 points as you play them out and watch them taking tricks while

defending 2♠ and be thankful you weren't playing some level of DOUBLED club contracts. Since even the 2 level isn't entirely safe, you probably shouldn't even double or overcall 2♣. Remember, if you never bid, the opponents can never DOUBLE you.

I am going to redefine my strong forcing 2♣ opening to a minimum of 25 HCP and a solid 7 card suit. It is obviously much too dangerous to force to game with less, as my LHO may have 5 good cards in my suit.

 

Better to defend a low level partial.

 

I am going to get into bed and hide under the covers. Bidding is obviously too frightening to contemplate.

[aguahombre]

Did it sound better coming from Rainer than in post #8? He even used the same argument about splitting 3♣ and 5♣.

Sorry, didn't mean to slight you. Just missed it.

[PhilG007]

[hv=pc=n&s=sajhadak6ckqt7642&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1s(10-15%205+%21S)d2s(bad%20raise)pp]133|200[/hv]

 

Your plan?

South's double is ludicrous. He should bid 5♣ there and then. If he does so,the opponents

will be hard put to find their♠fit

[PhilG007]

I have a well developed sense of danger that I sometimes choose to ignore, and an even better sense of probabilities (I have a statistics degree) ? it's one of those hands where you will gain a lot more often than you lose if you bid. Even if you have 3 club losers (unlikely) that's only -100 doubled in 3♣ and they will often make 3M and almost always make 2M.

 

Bidding is so obvious that I can't see any non beginner passing, bidding more than 3♣ is a gamble. The question was "is game possible" which I answered with that yarborough. The more interesting decision is what to do if you bid 3♣ and they bid 3M.

They who choose to ignore the danger signs cannot then complain about the disaster when it happens(!) :)

[ArtK78]

An interesting hand came up yesterday in the Philadelphia Sectional Swiss Teams. We were using duplicated boards so everyone was playing the same hands. It is not 100% analogous to the hand in this thread, but there are some similarities.

 

At no one vul, I held:

 

----

AKQJxx

Axxx

KJx

 

My RHO opened 1♠ in first seat. This is not the type of hand that I would want to defend 1♠x, but I could not conceive of overcalling 2♥ on these cards, and the thought of overcalling 4♥ did not appeal to me, since there were several possible places to play and slam chances were significant. So I doubled. It went ALL PASS.

 

When the smoke had cleared, we had +500. Partner held

 

AQJxxxx

xx

x

xxx

 

4♥ has a lot of play, but it is not cold, especially on a heart lead. In fact, I heard of some declarers in 4♥ that failed. I don't think our declarer did as well as he could in 1♠x, so perhaps we should get only +300. Still, it is a significant plus score. My teammate, playing in 1♠x on the same auction, managed to MAKE 7 tricks on particularly brutal defense (I will spare you from the details).

 

I don't know if there is any lesson to be learned from this, but I found it to be interesting.

[Zelandakh]

South's double is ludicrous. He should bid 5♣ there and then. If he does so,the opponents

will be hard put to find their♠fit

And if partner happens to have a few points, we will be hard put to find our slam. It rather sounds like you play your "double and bid" sequences as something akin to a 2♣ opener. That is fine if you have agreed it and are happy with the consequences, but you should not describe a call made by someone playing a more standard system as ludicrous.