Strong 4450 w/ significant pre-emption

[bd71]

[hv=pc=n&s=saq84hkqj3dkqt63c&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=p3cd4cdp5cp5hp]133|200[/hv]

 

Pickup partnership. Swiss.

 

Your bid?

[TylerE]

This auction should pretty much be this hand. I'm not donking 6 off 2 quick tricks.

 

Also, if partner doesn't have K♠ it's more likely in the west hand, so even if partner has a red ace there's a decent chance it's not enough.

[billw55]

I will pass. Not for technical reasons, but partnership principles. Usually in a pickup partnership, missing a slam under heavy competition is less damaging to morale than guessing at slam and going down.

 

Strictly on the hand, it seems like a guess, although the threat of a bad trump break gives me doubts about bidding on (partner seems to have only four hearts).

[ArtK78]

I tried for slam. Partner said no. He may be right, and he may not be right, but I don't have a good reason to overrule him.

 

Quite frankly, we may already be too high if things are foul. And even if partner has enough for slam to be reasonable, it may still not make.

[Free]

I don't think I could bid much stronger than this. Partner wants to settle for 5, then 5 it is... But I don't really understand his Double if he can't bid slam now.

[quiddity]

6♥. 3-loser hand, great trumps, void in opp's suit, partner made a responsive double at the 4-level.. Grand would require AAK in a passed hand which seems like too much to hope for so I'm not trying 6♣.

 

I'm not sure "we invited slam and partner said no". 5♣ is pretty high and we still haven't found a strain. This is murky but I think partner's primary responsibility is to show something about his shape at the lowest level, not jump to slam with Axxx of trumps and ♠K.

[gszes]

hmm I see wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too many passers. This gives me heartache

for the following reasons.

 

1. Why is p x of 4c being so easily dismissed?? What kind of power does p

need in order to show values here. My guess would be and A and K at

worst.

 

2. Does our 5c bid really promise a void or more likely 2 4 card majors opposite

a partner that made a nebulous bid most likely with no clear direction and

a little extra value?

 

3. P choice of 5h is based primarily on what they imagine a minimum hand from

you might have. Our hand is far better than our minimum and that club void could

be golden. I see no harm in bidding 6c here and allowing p with AAK to take us

to 7 if they don't have wasted club honors.

 

6c There is plenty of room for p to have AAK (none in clubs) and I see no strong

reason to give upon the bidding just because its unlikely.

[the_clown]

hmm I see wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too many passers. This gives me heartache

for the following reasons.

 

1. Why is p x of 4c being so easily dismissed?? What kind of power does p

need in order to show values here. My guess would be and A and K at

worst.

 

2. Does our 5c bid really promise a void or more likely 2 4 card majors opposite

a partner that made a nebulous bid most likely with no clear direction and

a little extra value?

 

3. P choice of 5h is based primarily on what they imagine a minimum hand from

you might have. Our hand is far better than our minimum and that club void could

be golden. I see no harm in bidding 6c here and allowing p with AAK to take us

to 7 if they don't have wasted club honors.

 

6c There is plenty of room for p to have AAK (none in clubs) and I see no strong

reason to give upon the bidding just because its unlikely.

 

 

1. Partner may easily have something like Jxxx Axxxx x Kxx. Oposite that slam has little play.

 

2. 5♣ showed a slam try opposite some random 7-11 count. If we believe we can make a slam opposite as little as 2 aces, we need to have a pretty strong hand to justify the bid.

 

3. If the passed hand partner declined my slam try with working AAK , I think I will start looking for a new partner.

[MrAce]

I think it is ridiculous to think that pd did not bid slam with 2 key cards in our suits after 5♣ which is a very strong bid imo. He obviously have club values the way opponents are bidding at these colors, or we would not have the chance to cue at 5 level.

 

Anyway, if we were going to bid slam anyway, why did not we bid 5NT or 6♣ previous round ? If 5♣ was intended to stop at 5 level then what part of 5♥ made our hand any better now than what it was before ?

[quiddity]

I think it is ridiculous to think that pd did not bid slam with 2 key cards in our suits after 5♣ which is a very strong bid imo. He obviously have club values the way opponents are bidding at these colors, or we would not have the chance to cue at 5 level.

 

He has club length, not necessarily club values.

 

Anyway, if we were going to bid slam anyway, why did not we bid 5NT or 6♣ previous round ? If 5♣ was intended to stop at 5 level then what part of 5♥ made our hand any better now than what it was before ?

 

I guess I understand 5NT as "pick your best major". Or is it "bid 4-card suits up the line"? What is 6♣ and how is partner expected to respond?

How would you bid with a 4351 or 4252 slam force?

[gwnn]

6H.

[Fluffy]

The 4-4 fit in hearts has improved our hand a little, actually any 4 card suit partner bids would provide an extra trick. In my experience partner would not bid slam himself with some 4423 even with both red aces since he will feel his hand is minimum.

 

 

Partner's double of 4♣ should be about a decent 8 count at minimum, unless he has a club honor slam will have good chances as he will have 2 bullets.

 

If the bullets are missing we have 2 chances left, spade finesse and opponents saving. But there is a downside, if trumps are 4-1 slam is doom from the start.

 

If I could know trumps are 3-2 I'd bid slam, but the 4-1 break hazard is too much.

 

 

[mcphee]

To make the grand I require 2 red aces plus the K of S, a hand the player MAY have opened if 4/4 majors as the auction suggests. It is possible 6 might fail, but I'll take the chance, this hand offers too many opportunities to give up on slam. I can not imagine a passed hand vul partner making a responsive double without a working A and K or 2 aces. If they can score a D ruff too bad. The passed hand is under no pressure to act with some pail vulnerable when west bids 4C making a responsive double, makes us a favorite to produce 12 tricks.

[quiddity]

After thinking about it some more I think it's better to pass. The ♣A is a pretty likely card for partner to hold and that's obviously bad for us. We'll be off at least one ace, maybe the king of spades, maybe missing the jack of diamonds, and maybe having to deal with a bad trump break.

 

I'm still interested in hearing opinions about whether 5♣ is strictly invitational, and started a new thread here: http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/61817-slam-bidding/