Lord Molyb Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 [hv=pc=n&w=st4hqj97642d2ca52&e=sakj86hkt8dat83c8&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p1sp2hp3dp3hp4hppp]266|200[/hv]This occurred a week ago. I was east and had agreed to play SAYC with a different-than-normal partner and we made it to 4♥. I can't see away to make it to slam, which makes easily against practically any distribution without the lead of the ace of trumps and another and still makes against that defense when spades behave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 I don't think 2♥ bid is normal in sayc, 2/1 promises at least 10 HCP, english can live with 9, but 7 is just not enough. You should had supported, in sayc 2/1 promises a rebid, so 3♥ is forcing, partner will bid 4♥ most likely, but you don't let him get away with it, your hand is excellent. In real sayc it should go like this: 1♠-1NT2♦-2♥ (2♥ is normally a 6 card suit 5-9 points)4♣-4♦ (4♣ splinter, and West is VERY happy with it, Axx is one of the best possible holdings opposite a splinter, and a 7th heart to add with the right doubleton&singleton on the others) after this someone will move forward to slam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 How can you not find slam after 1♠-2♥??? East should show his hand by splintering immediately instead of introducing ♦s and West shouldn't sh!t his pants after that because he's 'light'. Btw, I agree with Fluffy, West shouldn't even start with 2♥ and probably push later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 How can you not find slam after 1♠-2♥??? East should show his hand by splintering immediately instead of introducing ♦s and West shouldn't sh!t his pants after that because he's 'light'. Btw, I agree with Fluffy, West shouldn't even start with 2♥ and probably push later on. Say what you really think Frederick and don't pussy foot around. I agree with this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 What in SAYC is 1♠-1N-2♦-3♥ ? Is this fitting diamonds, or is it this sort of hand ? The reason I ask is that partner might be not quite as good as he is, and pass 2♥ after 1♠-1N-2♦-2♥ with 4♥ cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 What in SAYC is 1♠-1N-2♦-3♥ ? Is this fitting diamonds, or is it this sort of hand ? The reason I ask is that partner might be not quite as good as he is, and pass 2♥ after 1♠-1N-2♦-2♥ with 4♥ cold. In SAYC it has no meaning (so natural by default). SAYC is not a system - it is a more like a large convention card for American beginners and intermediates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 In SAYC it has no meaning (so natural by default). SAYC is not a system - it is a more like a large convention card for American beginners and intermediates. Yes, and Gonzalo is talking about requirements that are taught to beginners and intermediates, regarding 9+ hcp for 2/1 response. If this hand starts 1NT 3♥ is the correct bid in second turn imo. But that would disallow Gonzalo from using his most favourite convention splinter. Anyway, i disagree that this hand should start 1NT. Playing 2/1 not gf, one can easily start 2♥ with this hand imo, planning to rebid 3♥ or pass over 2♠. My hand evaluation tells me this hand is better than most 9 hcps. Doubleton is in pd's suit, side stiff, all hcps have their full weight and 7 card suit. This is not the best hand to count your beans imo. Having said all, i also disagree that after 2♥ response it is picnic walk to bid slam. @Lord Molyb : In the auction you posted, East thought by bidding diamonds and then supporting hearts at 4 level he was able to show ♣ shortness. He is wrong. East could easily bid 4♥ with doubleton or even with a singleton honor in this auction depending on his hand, from west's point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Funnily enough we had a potential disaster on the exact same auction over the weekend with a similar point at issue. Is 4♥ just a minimum reverse and to play, or does it categorically deny a club control ? I took the first view, partner took the second so we bid 6♥ with: [hv=pc=n&w=s86haqjt983da5c65&e=sakt42hkdkq762cj2]266|100[/hv] But fortunately opps led a trump and I made 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Surely the West hand has to bid 2♥ if not playing 2/1 and a forcing NT - even if it is nominally 10 points and a 5 card suit. If partner opened a weak NT, I suspect most holding this hand would punt game. Hence I don't see how you can make a non-forcing non-Heart bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 hands like this are one of the reasons I like 2/1 so much more than any standardbidding (sorry frank stewart). It allows us to explore for game/slam in ways thatare just plain nonexistent in other standard type systems. With Tx in spades itwould be a shame to forcibly play some number of hearts when p happens to be short where a spade contract would be vastly superior. 1s normal1n forcing2d normal3h lots of hearts invitational (this is much easier once p bypasses clubs)4c having already bypassed clubs this is easy splinter with H support4d cue 4n let see5c 1 (I always use 1430 when hearts are trumps 0314 everywhere else)5d heart Q?6h yes and nothing further to add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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