The opponents opened 1NT

[32519]

This hand is from our local club last night. What is the best option to defend with this? If it makes any difference to your suggestions, we play DONT.

[hv=pc=n&e=sakt96hkjdqt752c6&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1n(15-17%20HCP)]133|200[/hv]

[CamHenry]

It seems like your options are X, 2♦, 2♠, Pass, or some random psych. There's no point in psyching here, as it won't do much to the opponents' auction and partner may well raise you.

Double promises a six-card suit, as does 2♠. Do you play X or 2♠ as stronger? I think X is rather pointless here as it takes up no room, reduces your chance of defending 1NT which may well fail, and misleads partner. Similarly, 2♠ may well get raised on xx/Axxxx/xx/xxxx, and when they force you in clubs and you lose trump control it won't be pretty.

 

That leaves 2♦ or pass. 2♦ has the chance of finding a minor-suit fit (wahey) and the chance of directing the wrong lead; there's also a slim chance you'll have a constructive auction to a making 2♠ partscore. That all seems like a pretty narrow target.

 

Passing seems cautious, perhaps, on a working 12-count, but I have a sensible top spade lead and diamond switch against 1NT, a diamond lead against 3NT, and can always bid 2♠ after a transfer to ♥ (or Stayman bid).

 

Playing these methods, I pass. If I can show spades and a minor, or spades and another, or a non-touching two-suiter, I do so.

 

PS: Why are you playing DONT? I see little merit in the convention. It's nearly as bad as Cappelletti.

[gwnn]

We have D+S so I bid 2D. 2S is not bad per se but I think it's unnecessary at this moment.

[BillHiggin]

Allow me to try to understand why there is a problem here.

You play DONT over their 1N.

Playing DONT a 2D call shows diamonds and a major.

You have diamonds and a major.

You seem to claim to be an "insane 2-Diamond Bidder".

Is the fact that 2D is not insane on this hand the problem?

 

Bid 2D, maybe next hand will actually have a problem to solve, not so on this one.

Note: at the heart of DONT is the concept that you will not be trying to reach game after they open 1 strong NT, so there is no sense letting that concern you now. If there is a game, then so be it.

[the hog]

In my understanding of DONT: 2D promises D and a M.

 

I appear to have 5D and 5S

I have a hand on which I would like to bid

Ergo I bid 2D

QED

 

That is what I would do if I were forced to play this convention. Obviously I would prefer to play better methods, and there are many better.

[32519]

Obviously I would prefer to play better methods, and there are many better.

That's why I posted the hand. I want to find out the better methods. Tell me yours.

[the hog]

I suggest you read

http://www.chrisryall.net/bridge/1nt-complex.htm

http://www.clairebridge.com/defensevsnt.htm

and look at the convention cards of participants in international events

 

Fwiw I used to play Asptro.

[Free]

2♦ wtp playing dont.

[32519]

I suggest you look at/read the convention cards of participants in international events

Thats what I did. I saw Levin/Weinstein (and some others) using it in the 2011 Bermuda Bowl. I don't know if they still play it. :unsure:

[32519]

Read this DONT writeup from BridgeGuys website. A 5-4 holding is permissible when NV. We were NV. The problem now is that partner may have a decent 3-card raise for the major but is reluctant to do so when overcaller may only have a 4-card suit. How should the auction proceed now? More so when you hit on a double fit. Opener's partner will have squat regarding HCP now. So your side may actually have game on despite the 1NT opening?

 

How do others untangle the auction now?

[gwnn]

Read this DONT writeup from BridgeGuys website. A 5-4 holding is permissible when NV. We were NV. The problem now is that partner may have a decent 3-card raise for the major but is reluctant to do so when overcaller may only have a 4-card suit. How should the auction proceed now? More so when you hit on a double fit. Opener's partner will have squat regarding HCP now. So your side may actually have game on despite the 1NT opening?

 

How do others untangle the auction now?

The point of DONT is not to untangle our auction. The point is to try to make it difficult for opponents to untangle theirs. You don't look for game/slam/whatever with DONT. I used to include even 4/4 as two-suiters.

[BillHiggin]

That's why I posted the hand. I want to find out the better methods. Tell me yours.

I like the simple approach.

I prefer Landy in direct seat since the most important things to do are to handle hands with both majors or a single suited major effectively.

I would expect other defenses to do even better, but Landy is good enough for me (I have some memory issues to deal with, but those are mostly short term memory problems).

I do think DONT is effective in the balancing seat. There, I just want to not let them have their comfortable 1N contract, and DONT allows me to compete with less risk.

[blackshoe]

There's a couple of dozen different defenses to 1NT out there. I prefer Hello:

 

X: Penalty

2♣: ♦ or Mm two suiter

2♦: ♥

2♥: both M

2♠: ♠

2NT: ♣

3♣: both m

3♦: both M, forcing.

 

Jerry Helms' booklet Helms to Hello covers it well.

[hrothgar]

I am a fan of Lionel over the opponent's NT opening

 

Double shows Spades and another

2♣ shows Clubs and Hearts

2♦ shows Diamonds and Hearts

2♥ shows 6+ Hearts

2♠ shows 6+ Spades

 

On the DONT front

 

1. Obvious 2♦ opening

2. DONT isn't intended for delicate constructive auctions. Its designed to get in an out of the auction quickly and frequently...

[Zelandakh]

For minor-first 2-suited methods such as DONT: 2♦.

For major-first 2-suited methods such as Multi-Landy and Capp: 2♠.

For 2-under 2-suited methods such as Asptro: 2♦.

 

In my 1NT defence it is a 2♠ overcall showing 5 spades and a 4+ minor (similarly to Capp).

[straube]

I am a fan of Lionel over the opponent's NT opening

 

Double shows Spades and another

2♣ shows Clubs and Hearts

2♦ shows Diamonds and Hearts

2♥ shows 6+ Hearts

2♠ shows 6+ Spades

 

On the DONT front

 

1. Obvious 2♦ opening

2. DONT isn't intended for delicate constructive auctions. Its designed to get in an out of the auction quickly and frequently...

 

We play Pagan which is similar, but I think it's better because it tends to get the major lengths right more often...

 

dbl shows hearts and another (if partner fails to support hearts, rebid hearts with shorter spades but spades with shorter hearts)

2C shows clubs and spades

2D shows diamonds and spades

2H shows hearts

2S shows spades

2N shows minors

[ArtK78]

This hand is from our local club last night. What is the best option to defend with this? If it makes any difference to your suggestions, we play DONT.

[hv=pc=n&e=sakt96hkjdqt752c6&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1n(15-17%20HCP)]133|200[/hv]

This seems pretty straight forward.

 

As others have mentioned, the partnership agreement is DONT and I hold spades and diamonds. 2♦ shows diamonds and a major. Therefore, I bid 2♦.

 

However, if you were playing my pet convention - ArtK78 over NT - the correct call would bid 3♣. The 3♣ bid over a 1NT opening shows AKT96 KJ QT752 6. Admittedly, the bid does not come up too frequently, but this does seem like the right hand for it.

 

The real fun comes when you hold AKJ96 KJ QT752 6. Then the correct bid is 3♦. I can hardly wait to describe the set of responses to these calls.

[mfa1010]

Don't care what defense to 1NT I play.

As long as D=Pen and 2♣=Majors :)

[32519]

The point of DONT is not to untangle our auction. The point is to try to make it difficult for opponents to untangle theirs. You don't look for game/slam/whatever with DONT. I used to include even 4/4 as two-suiters.

I think that this is an area where we, and probably many others as well, leak a lot of points. I have jimmied some of the cards from the actual hand to present this layout -

[hv=pc=n&s=s532h764d96cqjt54&w=sq84hq982dk83c932&n=sj7hat53daj4cak87&e=sakt96hkjdqt752c6&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1n(15-17%20HCP)2d(DONT)p2h(Possible%20double%20fit)p2s(My%20other%20suit)p]399|300[/hv]

Game is on. However the problem is that West does not know either East's hand strength or actual distribution i.e. is the ♠ suit only 4-cards, or is it 5? My own methods are hopeless here as I have no way of exploring for game. I need to find a bid to announce a double fit and invite game. I don't (DONT) have one? How about your methods? How would you find the game here? Then I can dump DONT.

[ArtK78]

I think that this is an area where we, and probably many others as well, leak a lot of points. I have jimmied some of the cards from the actual hand to present this layout -

[hv=pc=n&s=s532h764d96cqjt54&w=sq84hq982dk83c932&n=sj7hat53daj4cak87&e=sakt96hkjdqt752c6&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1n(15-17%20HCP)2d(DONT)p2h(Possible%20double%20fit)p2s(My%20other%20suit)p]399|300[/hv]

Game is on. However the problem is that West does not know either East's hand strength or actual distribution i.e. is the ♠ suit only 4-cards, or is it 5? My own methods are hopeless here as I have no way of exploring for game. I need to find a bid to announce a double fit and invite game. I don't (DONT) have one? How about your methods? How would you find the game here? Then I can dump DONT.

DONT is an acronym. It stands for Disturb Opponents' NT. The object of DONT is to get into and out of the auction as often and as quickly and safely as possible. The basic idea behind DONT is that the opponents' NT auctions are far more accurate if they are uncontested, and a contested 1NT auction puts the opponents in unfamiliar and uncomfortable territory, where they are more likely to make errors.

 

Given that the opening 1NT shows 15-17 or thereabout (DONT is only used against strong NT openings), the chances that your side will have a game when they open 1NT are quite small. Another basic idea of DONT is that your side does not have a game. There are, of course, exceptions, but they are rare, and they can sometimes be uncovered by using DONT.

 

It is my understanding that a 2NT response to a DONT call is an unspecified game try.

 

By the way, I don't think that your chances of making game on these cards are that great on repeated club leads.

[mikeh]

I think that this is an area where we, and probably many others as well, leak a lot of points. I have jimmied some of the cards from the actual hand to present this layout -

[hv=pc=n&s=s532h764d96cqjt54&w=sq84hq982dk83c932&n=sj7hat53daj4cak87&e=sakt96hkjdqt752c6&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1n(15-17%20HCP)2d(DONT)p2h(Possible%20double%20fit)p2s(My%20other%20suit)p]399|300[/hv]

Game is on. However the problem is that West does not know either East's hand strength or actual distribution i.e. is the ♠ suit only 4-cards, or is it 5? My own methods are hopeless here as I have no way of exploring for game. I need to find a bid to announce a double fit and invite game. I don't (DONT) have one? How about your methods? How would you find the game here? Then I can dump DONT.

If your goal is to always reach playable games after the opps open a strong Notrump, my advice: give up the game. You are chasing moonbeams.

 

It is possible to reach playable games over their strong notrump but it is impossible to reach all of them and thinking that you 'should' be able to do so is an error.

 

The odds are that the hand belongs to the opps. The odds are that, left to their own devices, a competent set of opps will get to a good contract. Not all the time. LHO might hold a balanced 0 count. But bridge is about frequency of gain or loss, even at imps or total points (where size of gain or loss are also and sometimes more important).

 

The probabilities make it desirable to maximize our ability to disrupt their auction, even at the expense of negatively impacting our ability to accurately handle hands with game potential. We don't want to destroy our chances of game, but we do want to assign that target a much lower priority than getting in and fighting for the partscore.

 

Thus this hand is about showing our 2-suiter, in the hope that we can outbid them at the 2 or 3 level, not about how to reach 4♠.

 

Until and unless you learn that you have to operate within the constraints of the situation, you will never become a good bridge player.

[Vampyr]

Against Strong NT, we play that double = majors or minors or diamonds. But Landy and Multi-Landy are probably just as effective or more.

[mycroft]

If you're playing DONT for its constructive benefits, especially at matchpoints, switch - immediately - to any other interference scheme - even Natural.

 

Goal 2 of DONT is to get to a *safe* place, fast. The *right* place, even the right *suit* is of no concern whatever.

 

The reason for that is that Goal 1 of DONT is DONT - disturb opponent's NT. And that means "get in whenever feasible, with anything safe." Which means that you have to get in with these hands (and 2♦, yep) and with AKT6 KJ9 QT85 T6 or KT86 KJ9 QT854 6 (at this vulnerability at least). If you always promise a good hand, you're not getting in often enough for the disturb to pay for the losses you get by playing 2m instead of 2M (or 4M or 3NT or whatever) or by not being able to double for penalty.

 

"How can we avoid missing cold games after their NT overcall playing DONT?" is a question with no reasonable answer other than "that question makes no sense." or "Don't play DONT."

[Zelandakh]

If your goal is to always reach playable games after the opps open a strong Notrump, my advice: give up the game. You are chasing moonbeams.

I would just forget about it Mike. We have been through this whole thing before with precisely the same things being said. If the OP has not absorbed these arguments by now then he probably never will.

[Fluffy]

lol I gave up his threads very long ago.