Three great cards

[cherdano]

[hv=pc=n&s=s432hajt92dq2cj52&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1cp1hp2dp2hp3np]133|200[/hv]

 

In case it matters:

• If you bid 4C, you cannot stop in 4N - you will play 5C or slam.
  
• Partner would be unlikely to open 2N off-shape (6-card minor, 2245 etc.)
  
• IMPs.
  

 

(Edited to specify scoring.)

[Fluffy]

It´s the kind of hand I´d bid on playing online with friends, but pass on a serious game, specially at MPs. Partner´s pressumed 3145 with something as good as ♠AQx♥x♦AKxx♣AKQ10x doesn´t even provide a cold slam, and his hand could be much worse.

[billw55]

Object to conditions: I would have bid 3♣ over 2♦.

[mfa1010]

We are missing ♣AKQ, ♦AK, ♠AKQ. Bidding on is too optimistic.

[gnasher]

♥A isn't a "great" card. I'd far prefer to have ♠K.

[Cyberyeti]

We are missing ♣AKQ, ♦AK, ♠AKQ. Bidding on is too optimistic.

 

Partner doesn't need anywhere close to all of those, Ax(x), (x), AKJx, AKxxxx is plenty but I would not have bid 2♥, having done so, slam is heavily odds against so I would pass.

[sathyab]

The problem is that partner could still have ♠AKx ♥x ♦KJxx ♣AKQxx. Because 2♥ was ambiguous, partner wanted to bid game perhaps ? If everything breaks reasonably you could ruff two losers in dummy, unless they start with a trump lead. With a hand this good would partner rush to bid 3nt rather than say 2♠ and then follow it up with 3nt ?

[mikeh]

I'm with all those who pass, and don't think it to be close.

 

Partner has at least 2 spade stoppers for the 3N call, which means that his minors don't have to be strong enough that our holdings in the suits will be sufficient.

 

AQJ x AKxx AKxxx is 21 hcp, surely the very most he can hold, and we are on a trump break and (probably) a spade hook.

 

I assume that we can take his 3N as announcing no issue with spades, so he will almost always hold 6+ hcp in that suit. That will often leave us with a possible spade loser, given our holding and our short combined trump fit of 8 cards, even when he holds the A.

 

Giving him 6+ hcp in spades, as a working assumption, and assuming his stiff heart is an x, we are left with real concerns about the minors. He won't be able to set up hearts, since we won't have the entries. So I think hoping for slam is overly optimistic.

 

Btw, I think this hand's second call is a close decision, but I would go with 3♣. I like the minor cards at the 2♦ stage, and we can always get back the 5-3 heart fit if that was what partner was looking for: he'll bid 3♥ over 3♣ with 1=3=4=5.

[JLOGIC]

Partner doesn't need anywhere close to all of those, Ax(x), (x), AKJx, AKxxxx is plenty but I would not have bid 2♥, having done so, slam is heavily odds against so I would pass.

 

Bidding 2S with this seems pretty normal

[billw55]

he'll bid 3♥ over 3♣ with 1=3=4=5.

exactamundo

[Fluffy]

I use first step as GF shape asking so I don't really know much about the suit rebids, but don't you also get a 3♥ over 3♣ with 2245 or 1246?, at least with a heart honor.

[mikeh]

I use first step as GF shape asking so I don't really know much about the suit rebids, but don't you also get a 3♥ over 3♣ with 2245 or 1246?, at least with a heart honor.

 

If he chose to do that, I'm ok with 4♥: Hx opposite my AJ10xx with dummy able to take the spade tap if there is one coming. If he has little in spades and only Hx in hearts, his minors are going to work well for me. Meanwhile, if he has, for example, x Kx AKxx AKQxxx, he is driving to a club slam, not trying to play 4♥, after I make a natural, gf 3♣ call.

[mike777]

pass

 

agree with 2h it limits our hand and shows 5h, perfect. 3c would be stronger.

 

agree that pard would rebid 2s art/gf with some of these examples.

[the hog]

Why did I bid 2H? I would have bid 2S or second choice 3C. Pass is clear.

[cloa513]

Why did I bid 2H? I would have bid 2S or second choice 3C. Pass is clear.

Exactly- I'd say 2S is clear. Then if he has strong slam potential he can bid 2NT (moderately balanced) or 3C (long clubs) or 3D (wild two suiter) to allow for slow exploration or 3NT for hand with moderate to low slam potential.

[mikeh]

Exactly- I'd say 2S is clear. Then if he has strong slam potential he can bid 2NT (moderately balanced) or 3C (long clubs) or 3D (wild two suiter) to allow for slow exploration or 3NT for hand with moderate to low slam potential.

I guess we need the OP to address this in terms of the context of his auction, but the notion of using 2♠ as an artificial gf is, to put it mildly, not universal. For me, and many others, it would indeed be artificial but not as a sign of strength: it would show weakness, less than gf opposite a minimum reverse.

[mike777]

Exactly- I'd say 2S is clear. Then if he has strong slam potential he can bid 2NT (moderately balanced) or 3C (long clubs) or 3D (wild two suiter) to allow for slow exploration or 3NT for hand with moderate to low slam potential.

 

 

2h seems clear again

responder is an unpassed hand

 

Not strong enough for 3 c or 2s

 

 

2h=roughly 6-8/9 and 5h perfect

 

2h also allows pard to rebid 2s with extras as art/gf

given pard preferred to rebid 3nt not 2s I pass.

 

 

3c or 2s = more

[rhm]

I find this difficult to answer, simply because there is not much agreement how to continue over a reverse.

There is not even agreement whether responder should bid 2♥ with the actual hand, though I believe responders first duty is to show a decent 5 card or longer major. I consider that rebid unlimited and forcing

Would 2NT by opener on the third round been forcing?

If the answer is yes, why would opener take away bidding room from the partnership with a strong hand, if he is interested say in a minor suit slam?

Even if the answer is that 2NT would not have been forcing, what would 2♠ followed by 3NT have shown?

Opener could have a hand strong enough for a 2♣ opening but with an awkward distribution.

How does he bid with say ♠AQ, ♥-, ♦AKxx, ♣AKxxxxx where 7♣ would be a good contract?

What does an immediate jump to 3NT show? As long as this question has not been answered the poll is meaningless in my opinion.

Of course you pass having no answers to the above questions.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[billw55]

2h seems clear again

responder is an unpassed hand

 

Not strong enough for 3 c or 2s

 

 

2h=roughly 6-8/9 and 5h perfect

 

2h also allows pard to rebid 2s with extras as art/gf

given pard preferred to rebid 3nt not 2s I pass.

 

 

3c or 2s = more

If 3♣ promises more, then how would you bid if one of your hearts was a small spade instead? Do you have something artificial .. or will you bid NT naturally with spades uncontrolled?

 

I thought the whole reason reverses must have extra strength is that responder must correct at the three level even with a minimum.

[mike777]

ya with only a 4 card major and a weak hand you rebid 2nt art/wk.

[cherdano]

Yes, I also thought pass was clear but wanted to double-check. For all I knew I may have been anti-resulting ;) (Partner's hand was AKx - KJxx AKQxxx.)

 

P.S.: Of course we had the 2H vs 3C debate before. I can see the merits of 3C but I thought 2H would work fairly well in terms of choice of games, e.g.:

- 4C over 2S.

- 3C (forcing and natural) over 2N.

- 3S over a (non-forcing) 3C.

 

Of course it's a matter of chicken-and-egg, but I wouldn't expect partner to bid 3H over 3C with only two hearts.

[sathyab]

Yes, I also thought pass was clear but wanted to double-check. For all I knew I may have been anti-resulting ;) (Partner's hand was AKx - KJxx AKQxxx.)

 

P.S.: Of course we had the 2H vs 3C debate before. I can see the merits of 3C but I thought 2H would work fairly well in terms of choice of games, e.g.:

- 4C over 2S.

- 3C (forcing and natural) over 2N.

- 3S over a (non-forcing) 3C.

 

Of course it's a matter of chicken-and-egg, but I wouldn't expect partner to bid 3H over 3C with only two hearts.

 

Is 3♣ over 2nt forcing ? A lot of people play it non-forcing to make a distinction between a direct 3♣ versus getting there after a non-forcing bid, such as 2♥ here.

 

4♣ over 2♠ ? Would 3♣ be non-forcing ?

[cherdano]

Yes, 3C would have been forcing with this partner.

I would hate to bid 3C over 2S - you have real support, not a preference, and if partner doesn't want to bid NT, I don't want to play NT.

[mike777]

opener had a decision to make 3nt or 2s after 2h.

[Zelandakh]

Has anyone experimented with using a 2♥ rebid as non-forcing and channeling the GF hands with 5 hearts through 2♠? It would be possible to arrange it so that 2♠ always showed 5 hearts, for example (using transfers):-

 

1♣ - 1♥ - 2♦

============

2♥ = to play

2♠ = 5 hearts, GF

2N = clubs

3♣ = diamonds

3♦ = 6+ hearts

3♥ = agrees hearts

 

There is just so much space over 2♦. It seems to me that we should either include extra hand types here or (if the reverse remains pure) use the extra space to allow Responder to describe more clearly.