Oh no our auction has gone off the rails

[humilities]

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Our agreements;

2/1 is 100% forcing to game

We play Kickback for the minors

2D is our generic rebid showing 5+D any strength - allowing partner to further describe (a 4-4 major fit is still possible)

3C is natural

3H is natural and often an attempt to get to 3NT (unless later clarified)

4NT is natural and invitational - at least an Ace more than a minimum

 

Clearly my 3H bid has derailed this auction. I was on my way to 6 or 7 clubs and wanted to hear if we had wasted spade cards - I was planning to bid 4C over 3NT and Kickback over 4C. I was not ready for the 4NT bid (and not even sure what to do over 4D which shows how poorly I thought this out). Now I really want to bid the grand but partner doesn't even know what's trumps!

 

I'd like to bid 5H looking for a 5S bid - but we are not on firm ground here. Should partner know to cue bid his A of spades even if he doesn't know what is going on? Is there anything else I could be looking for?

 

Any other ideas?

 

ps: next time SET THE FREAKING TRUMP SUIT!

[inquiry]

Your auction went off the rails when you failed to raise 2♣ directly to 3♣. To woodenly rebid 2♦ seems very wrong too me.

 

You might have recovered over partner's 3♣ by bidding either 4♠ (splinter) or 4♣, but you really don't want to be asking for aces. If that is needed it should be up to partner.

 

However, at this point, a simple 6♣ bid by you will probably get to a playable contract, problem is you might miss 7♣ or if it matchpoints, a better 6NT contract

[TWO4BRIDGE]

2D is fine -- right out of Max Hardy's 2/1 GF book -- promising 5+ Diam, and loads of room available to find a 4-4 major fit.

I don't agree with Ben's suggestion of an immediate 3 card ♣ raise. Responder may only have a 4 card suit.

But 3C ( by North ) denied a 4 card Major and showed 5+ cards ♣ .

Now raise to 4C over 3C .

And, if using Zelandakh's "Conditional RKC" :

South-North

1D - 2C

2D - 3C

4C - ??

....... 4D = no slam interest

....... the next 4 steps are RKC replies showing slam interest :

....... 4H = 0/3

....... 4S = 1/4

.......4NT = 2 - ♣Q

....... 5C = 2 + ♣Q

 

If Responder makes the 4NT reply ( 2 - ♣Q ), s/he can now start to ask for Kings (cheapest specific reply) with 5D .

[gnasher]

I'd just bid 7♣. He's almost certain to have ♠A, given that he's missing all the other aces and QJ of his long suit.

[mikeh]

I'd just bid 7♣. He's almost certain to have ♠A, given that he's missing all the other aces and QJ of his long suit.

It's not the spade A that worries me....

 

I'd be more worried about the red suits..in particular that he has Qx(x) or Jx(x) or even QJ(x) in diamonds and nowhere to put the losers and no squeeze. If that were the only issue, I might still blast but when I factor in that he might, just barely, be off the spade A, then blasting grand is too committal for me.

 

At imps, one wants very good odds to bid a grand. At mps, one wants even better odds simply because in most fields, some pairs have accidents even when grand looks fairly easy to bid...it is rare to score zero for missing a grand and routine to score zero for overbidding to a failing grand.

 

I would bid 6♣. I'd toy with 6N at mps, but reject it...I think it a worse choice than either 7♣ or 6♣...if we can make 6N, I'd often prefer to be in 7♣.

[rhm]

I would bid 6♣. I'd toy with 6N at mps, but reject it...I think it a worse choice than either 7♣ or 6♣...if we can make 6N, I'd often prefer to be in 7♣.

I beg to differ on this.

I bid 6N at mps and 6♣ at IMPs.

I am pretty sure that in the long run 6N is a winning proposition at mps even when 7♣ has good chances.

6♣ at mps is only right if it is our only makeable slam.

When everything makes, 6♣ with an overtrick will not be much above average, if at all.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[Fluffy]

come on, partner has an 18 count with 6 bad clubs, its really tough to find a loser, diamonds should provide pitches on partner's hearts, the only real danger is missing ♦K when partner has doubleton, but even then, he will have at least ♥KJ, but most often ♥KQ so not everything is lost . 7♣ is the only reasonable alternative at this point.

 

I don't understand why you didn't bid 2♥ over 2♣, I know 2♦ is waiting/asking, but you don't wait/ask when you have a cheap descriptive bid.

[mikeh]

come on, partner has an 18 count with 6 bad clubs, its really tough to find a loser, diamonds should provide pitches on partner's hearts, the only real danger is missing ♦K when partner has doubleton, but even then, he will have at least ♥KJ, but most often ♥KQ so not everything is lost . 7♣ is the only reasonable alternative at this point.

 

I don't understand why you didn't bid 2♥ over 2♣, I know 2♦ is waiting/asking, but you don't wait/ask when you have a cheap descriptive bid.

I agree with your second point: partner would often bid a forcing 2N and now our 3♣ call goes a long way towards showing our hand.

 

But on your first point, I don't know wht you think partner has shown 18 hcp: the OP said that he showed an A over a minimum: he doesn't need 14 to respond 2♣. A small point but maybe a big one when trying to guess the final contract.

[aguahombre]

I don't agree with Ben's suggestion of an immediate 3 card ♣ raise. Responder may only have a 4 card suit.

With this 1-4-5-3 pattern, I agree with you; and so would Max (your frequent referrence and usually our common ground). But not because it is a 3-card raise, rather because the 2D rebid was systemic to show the fifth diamond at this point.

 

In his earliest (Blue) book, even before he made 2C/1D a true game force, he recommended 3-card raises (HXX) of 2C with balanced hands ---and a dreaded 2D rebid with 3-3-4-3 but no honor.

 

When 2C/1D became a game force in his teachings, he still advocated a 3-card raise with balanced hands ---no longer requiring an honor ---even though he acknowledged that on occasion the 2C response might only be a 4-bagger.

 

By doing this he stuck with one of his pet descriptive rebids:

 

1D-2C

2N=exactly 4=4=3=2 and either 12-14 or 18-19 HCP.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

 

By doing this he stuck with one of his [ Max Hardy ] pet descriptive rebids:

 

1D-2C

2N=exactly 4=4=3=2 and either 12-14 or 18-19 HCP.

I think I've heard of that "2NT" rebid = 4 4 3 2 ( by Opener ) over 2C ... but for the life of me I can't find it in his yellow paperback .

[aguahombre]

He First stated it on Pg 24 of the Blue "Five Card Majors, Western Style"; then never backed off the idea.

[GBinUS]

Did I miss it or did you 'forget' to bid 4♣ after the 3♣ call instead of the ridiculous 3 ♥?

 

After partner is known to have a game going hand and a 6 card club suit missing AQJ, with all my controls, surely the club slam has play, and maybe the grand. So set the suit and let's go!

 

Now shooting 7 risks having a losing red card somewhere, so I'm going to settle for 6 and clubs is safer than NT.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

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ps: next time SET THE FREAKING TRUMP SUIT!

I'm ready to see Opener's hand .

[the hog]

The failure to raise C at the first instance is an egregious one. I would bid 6C now.

[humilities]

Did I miss it or did you 'forget' to bid 4♣ after the 3♣ call instead of the ridiculous 3 ♥?

 

 

Clearly 3H was wrong that was the whole point of the OP glad to hear it was ridiculous too :P

 

I'd just bid 7♣. He's almost certain to have ♠A, given that he's missing all the other aces and QJ of his long suit.

 

Excellent thought that didn't occur to me at the table - thanks :)

 

I'm ready to see Opener's hand .

 

Opener held:

 

AKx

Kx

KJ

K10xxxx

 

I just bid 6C figuring our mediocre opposition probably wouldn't bid the grand (they didn't) but still felt just as stupid missing such an easy opportunity. Thanks to all that took the time to give advice.