Uncharted waters

[Phil]

MPs

 

Good partner, but agreements are still getting worked out.

 

xxxx Ax xxxxx xx

 

w/r, (2♥) - 3♥ - (p) - 3N - (p) - 4♣ - (p) - ?

[TylerE]

I think this is a slam try, inviting a cue if I can give one. So 4♥ it is, although I hate it because it's the only card in my hand.

[billw55]

If you don't have an agreement about 3♥, I suppose you must guess. I would have guessed it as michaels, ergo partner has clubs and spades. If there is reason to think this is not the case, my next guess would be a strong one suiter. I will choose 4♠, at least this lets partner get back to clubs if that is all he has.

[TylerE]

Absent discussion to the contrary, I would assume 3♥ is asking for a stop.

[billw55]

Or that too, yes. Always an adventure in a pickup partnership!

[wyman]

GOSH if 4C direct = LM.

 

4H cue makes me a little ill; not only is it the only card in my hand, he already knows I have something there. I want to bid 4N to play pretty badly here at MPs, so I guess it depends on how rough those agreements are whether I'm bidding that or 5C.

[Siegmund]

With a pickup partner I'd think it was obvious he intended it as michaels rather than a stopper, and put him back in 4S now.

[TylerE]

Yes, but we are told partner is "good". With a good/expert partner my starting assumption would be Western Q + Leaping Michaels.

[Phil]

Maybe I take too much for granted.

 

Leaping Michaels is in effect. 3♥ is a stopper ask.

[PhilKing]

I have a method here:

 

4♣ = ♣+♠, GF, too good for leaping Michaels (which is NF for me, showing 4-5 losers)

4♦ = ♦+♠

4♥ = ♣s, very strong 1-suiter

4♠ = ♦s, very strong 1-suiter

 

It takes a bit of work to get it all to flow, since pard does not always bid 3NT. For instance, after 2♥-3♥-pass, I play 3♠ as a relay and 4♣ as p/c without a heart stop.

 

After the 4♣ and 4♦ bid, we are in an analagous situation that applies to 34 sequences regarding follow up bids.

[quiddity]

IMO 4♥ is mandatory. Partner knows I have something there but he doesn't know it's the ace.

[gnasher]

I'd bid 4♥ without feeling bad about it - that's what partner has asked me to do. If he just needs ♥A for slam, he'll bid slam. If he needs something more, he'll bid 4♠ or 5♣, knowing that he's already made a slam-try.

[Phil]

The other hand held Kxx Kx A AKQJxxx. We agreed that after a 4c try that retreating with 4N over 4♥ is probably best.

 

In retrospect a direct 3N has a lot going for it.

[aguahombre]

Maybe I take too much for granted.

 

Leaping Michaels is in effect. 3♥ is a stopper ask.

I don't believe the entire set of good/expert players assume Leaping M and that 3♥ is a stopper ask without discussion.

 

What should have been taken for granted by all of us, IMO, was that XXXX AX XXXXX XX would have bid some number of Spades if he thought it was Mike, rather than 3NT if he didn't assume it was a stopper ask. And since we were in "uncharted waters", 4♣ after 3NT would muddy those waters ---making advancer think maybe it wasn't a stopper ask.

 

I agree with Phil's later post. 3NT directly would probably be better; I don't think we would like a Spade lead through that hand at a higher level.

 

BTW, there is another possible meaning for 3H in "charted" waters even if Leaping 4m is agreed ---Minor suits.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I don't believe the entire set of good/expert players assume Leaping M and that 3♥ is a stopper ask without discussion.

..........

BTW, there is another possible meaning for 3H in "charted" waters even if Leaping 4m is agreed ---Minor suits.

The "old" Leaping Michaels used 3H for the minors and had NO stop-ask .

These days, I believe more expert/good players would use 3H as the stop-ask and either 4H! ( or 4NT! ) for the minors.

 

Those who use 4NT for the minors may use 4H! as Blackwood . 4H! as Blackwood has the advantage of stopping in 5-minor if need be.

[Zelandakh]

For instance, after 2♥-3♥-pass, I play 3♠ as a relay and 4♣ as p/c without a heart stop.

What is the structure after (2♠) - 3♠, Phil?

[PhilKing]

What is the structure after (2♠) - 3♠, Phil?

 

4♣ p/c

4♦ relay, forcing to 5 level