Sacrifice?

[CSGibson]

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Matchpoints

 

You play undisciplined weak 2s in this seat position/vulnerability. Opponents are not well known to you (you are out of your playing area), but are fairly competent by reputation.

 

I guess what I'm really asking is whether the 2♦ opener has rights in this auction, and if so, whether he should excercise the right to sac?

[gwnn]

X should mean 'I wanna bid 5D!!' but that feeling would mostly be based on a less defensive diamond holding, maybe KQJxxx or something? I don't think it's a good idea on AKxxxx.

[barmar]

Has the old guideline that a preemptor almost never bids again unless forced changed? The exceptions are when there's something unusual about his hand that increases its ODR, like a long side suit.

 

This hand is pretty much exactly what partner expects you to have, and he's captain.

[ArtK78]

Partner knows more about your hand than you know about his hand. For all you know, he was worried that the opps might bid slam.

 

This is a clear pass. Quite frankly, I would have said that even before seeing the hand, based on the auction alone.

 

Now, if you had opened 2♦ on a 6-5 hand, then you might have a case for bidding once more. But then there is still that slam thing.

[barmar]

Now, if you had opened 2♦ on a 6-5 hand, then you might have a case for bidding once more. But then there is still that slam thing.

If you have 6-5, suits will not be breaking well for them, so that slam might not be so great.

[JLOGIC]

Absolutely not, maybe you thought you had 1 spade and 3 clubs :P

 

You have an ace, a stiff, and T9x of trumps. It is very easy to imagine diamond to the ace and a club through beating it in a variety of ways. You have far above average defense, and you don't even know that they have a fit in spades, it's not like they have bid and raised. If it was right to save it's likely partner would have saved. Sometimes you both have reason to think that you can beat it and you can't and your save woulda been 300 or 500, you can't get them all right but there is no reason to save on this hand. Partner also knows you are white/red at MP and knows much more about your hand than you know about his and chose not to save.

[wank]

sacrificing on this auction is fine in general, but not once you've looked at your hand

[JLOGIC]

X should mean 'I wanna bid 5D!!' but that feeling would mostly be based on a less defensive diamond holding, maybe KQJxxx or something? I don't think it's a good idea on AKxxxx.

 

I don't think this should be true in passout seat, your partner has already not doubled them so you can just bid 5D if you wanna bid 5D. I would X 4S with a void and the ace of diamonds routinely, esp if I had something else.

[Cyberyeti]

sacrificing on this auction is fine in general, but not once you've looked at your hand

 

Depends, we play very undisciplined weak 2s and I'd sac in a heartbeat here as partner will have 5+ diamonds (I only guarantee 4). 3 small spades is a poor holding as I expect W to hold 7+ as often as not (he hasn't doubled again or overcalled 3♠ first time, he may well have a hand too good to bid 4♠ first up). Yes 4♠ might go off if partner's honours are in clubs, if they're in hearts x, AQ10, Qxxxx, xxx is sufficient to make 5♦ with 4♠ also conceivably making if diamonds are 2-0.

[JLOGIC]

lol yes if partner has guaranteed five or more diamonds I'd probably sac also!

[jogs]

lol yes if partner has guaranteed five or more diamonds I'd probably sac also!

 

With 5+ diamonds, wouldn't pard bid 5♦ himself?

[barmar]

With 5+ diamonds, wouldn't pard bid 5♦ himself?

Not if he's only expecting 4 from you.

 

Opening a weak 2 with a 4-card suit is so far from mainstream I don't think it's really worth discussing in the General bridge forum.

[the hog]

[hv=pc=n&s=st97hj84dakt853c7&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=2dd4dpp4spp]133|200[/hv]

 

Matchpoints

 

You play undisciplined weak 2s in this seat position/vulnerability. Opponents are not well known to you (you are out of your playing area), but are fairly competent by reputation.

 

I guess what I'm really asking is whether the 2♦ opener has rights in this auction, and if so, whether he should excercise the right to sac?

 

Why do you wish to bid your hand again? You told your story with 2D.

[akhare]

Why would this hand want to bid again, especially with the stiff ♣? Pard had two chances to 5♦ after all, the caveat about undisciplined notwithstanding.

[blackshoe]

What's all this nonsense about rights?

[yunling]

No, not with AKXXXX of D. It is also possible that opponents are not playing in their best spot.

[JLOGIC]

Well to change gears and play devils advocate, Chris is thinking he has far above average OFFENSE than expected. I doubt he has 4 card suits often but I would expect xx xx KQJxx xxxx to be normal given his style. He has a lot of offense for 2D but chose to bid it since 3-3 in the majors with a pretty constructive hand.

 

Thus, our save is likely to be cheap enough (down 3 or less) opposite what partner bid 4D with. If we are not like 40% + to beat them it is right to bid. Given that partner didn't double, we are not that likely to be 40 % to beat them. Is that right Chris?

[gnasher]

Do I play undisciplined weak threes too? If so, maybe I should have opened one of those and saved myself the problem.

 

If the range for 2♦ is so wide that we're considering sacrificing on a 6331 shape with an ace when we've already made the opponents guess, we should definitely play double as "action". This hand is far more likely to occur than a Lightner double.

Edited July 25, 2013 by gnasher

[Cyberyeti]

Do I play undisciplined weak threes too? If so, maybe I should have opened one of those and saved myself the problem.

 

This is a very fair comment, also what indisciplined means is very open to interpretation. Clearly the less diamonds you've shown, the more partner needs to raise. If indisciplined means you will open everything from Jxxxxx and out to what you have, that's one thing, if AKxxx in a 1354 is a weak 2 is another, for us x, xxx, xxxx, xxxxx is a legitimate weak 2♦ at favourable.

[Fluffy]

If I feel I have extra offence then I should had opened 3♦ (I would had pened 3♦ BTW)

 

The way I play partner has made a decision and we live with it, only fit bids (3x) are an invitation to sacrifice. This doesn't mean my methods are optimal.

[PhilKing]

FWIW I think action doubles are pretty terrible here - you can make them as frequent as you want but it makes them even worse.

 

Lightner is less frequent but the gains are huge.

[helene_t]

The reason why partner didn't sac himself might be because he expect them to have slam. The reason why he didn't double might be because he didn't want them to run to 5♣. So I don't think we should sac very often.

 

In any case, with three trumps, a side singleton and an ace we have a lot more defense than we might have. So if anything, we could venture an action double.

 

I would pass, though.

[billw55]

The OP seems to be a strong player and wise poster. For most others I would suspect resulting.

[CSGibson]

Well to change gears and play devils advocate, Chris is thinking he has far above average OFFENSE than expected. I doubt he has 4 card suits often but I would expect xx xx KQJxx xxxx to be normal given his style. He has a lot of offense for 2D but chose to bid it since 3-3 in the majors with a pretty constructive hand.

 

Thus, our save is likely to be cheap enough (down 3 or less) opposite what partner bid 4D with. If we are not like 40% + to beat them it is right to bid. Given that partner didn't double, we are not that likely to be 40 % to beat them. Is that right Chris?

 

That's what I was thinking, yes. Though partner expects a 6 bagger normally (this is slightly less aggressive than my normal partnership), I don't have to have all of my values concentrated in my suit, so partner can't be sure saving is right if I have some extra defense around - I thought 4D was inviting me to the party, especially because we play transfer McCabe over X, letting partner direct me to specific values. With that in mind, I thought that passing would be clear at imps, but that bidding was worth thinking about at matchpoints.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=st97hj84dakt853c7&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=2dd4dpp4spp]133|200|

 

Matchpoints

You play undisciplined weak 2s in this seat position/vulnerability. Opponents are not well known to you (you are out of your playing area), but are fairly competent by reputation.

I guess what I'm really asking is whether the 2♦ opener has rights in this auction, and if so, whether he should excercise the right to sac?

[/hv]

IMO Pass = 10, 5♦ = 9. Close decision:

• Argument for pass: Eleven tricks are a lot. Partner could have raised to 5♦ rather than 4♦. You are maximum with defence (top diamonds and potentially useful knave and a ten). Your-side cut away opponents' room for exploration so they have made the wrong guess. Bidding 5♦ opens up options for opponents (Forcing pass, Double, 5♥, 5♠, slams).
• Argument for bidding: I agree with a weak 2♦ but your bid is "pure", you have 6 diamonds rather than 5, and your values are mainly in your bid suit. Partner's advance sacrifice is just a co-operative suggestion (partner won't often bid 4♦ then 5♦ unless he is walking the dog).