Who's the bigger lunatic?

[the_dude]

[hv=pc=n&s=s9765haqjt2dq32c2&n=sjt42h3dak987ct84&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=1c1d2cd3c3sp4sppp]266|200[/hv]

 

Obviously we both lost our minds a bit, but who do you think went overboard the most? Any other comments on the auction are welcome.

 

Thanks.

 

Scoring was IMPs btw

[Codo]

I think 3 ♠ is an overbid. You have a minimum overcall. so I would pass and bid 3 ♠ over a possible second double. If partner decides not to bid over 3 ♣ we mayb even beat it.

[PhilKing]

I would, have bid 2♥ on the South cards, which hardly precludes playing in spades. 4♠ was an outright blunder imo, since your values mostly opposite partner's likely shortage.

 

No blame to North. Partner can easily have a 5521 or similar with insufficient values to compete over 3♣ whilst being cold for at least 3♠.

[Hanoi5]

3♠ seemed to me as the most exaggerated call. 4♠ seemed a close second but a singleton in their suit, the double fit, the honour in partner's suit and the good 5-card suit, I would have done the same. If North passes 3♣ South still has time to compete, probably with 3♦, in this case, or another double.

[ArtK78]

3♠ is the biggest overbid. Having overcalled, I would not make another call unless I was forced to do so.

 

I agree with PhilKing that South should have bid hearts rather than double. If spades is the right spot, partner is going to have to introduce them voluntarily. But the double is at least correct on values and shape.

 

Once North freely bids 3♠, I think that 4♠ on the South hand is clear.

[Free]

I hope this poll is to decide who has to buy the other one a beer. 3♠ shows so much extras that it's the biggest blunder imo. Cheers!

[fromageGB]

I think the biggest mistake is South's double, given that his strength should be discounted somewhat by partner's propensity to overcall with very little. Another factor is that North could well have doubled or used raptor with 4 spades. 2♥ is more descriptive of the hand, and I prefer 2♦ to double.

[billw55]

Both players are overbidding but I admit I have seen worse. Maybe north a little more than south.

 

I hope this poll is to decide who has to buy the other one a beer. 3♠ shows so much extras that it's the biggest blunder imo. Cheers!

I think they both should get a beer and maybe some chips too :)

[mikeh]

I think the biggest mistake is South's double, given that his strength should be discounted somewhat by partner's propensity to overcall with very little. Another factor is that North could well have doubled or used raptor with 4 spades. 2♥ is more descriptive of the hand, and I prefer 2♦ to double.

Yet another in the seemingly infinite series of posts in which the poster has a pet gadget and assumes that the entire world plays or should play his pet gadget.

 

Raptor is hardly a standard I/A device. I gather it is popular in some areas of the world, but to criticize S's action on the basis that N failed to bid 1N, raptor, is silly.

 

That isn't to say that I agree with double, but were I to choose 2♥ it would NOT be because I assumed that my I/A partner had decided that we play raptor.

 

I am agnostic on double or 2♥. I slightly prefer the double because of my diamond support.

[fromageGB]

Not at all, I am not espousing Raptor nor assuming it is played by the poster. I am merely saying that many people in the overcall seat try to avoid missing a potential spade fit, by whatever partnership method, such as using a X when 2-suited, so there is an inference that a hand that makes a bid of 1♦ is unlikely to have four spades.

 

Given that South's X is positively inviting a bid of 3♠ if opener bids 3♣ (as is highly likely), if North does have spades, to do this on such a feeble spade suit when you have an excellent heart suit you have not shown, seems particularly misguided.

[PhilKing]

So is South expected to bid again on:

 

♠Qxxxx

♥Axxxx

♦Jx

♣x

 

When we rate to make about 9 or 10 tricks.

 

On the other hand if North held:

 

♠AQxx

♥x

♦AKxxx

♣xxx

 

He should surely pot game, and make the spade queen a small card, double and remove a red suit to 3♠ as a try. On the auction as it went, South has zero chance of finding a hand opposite where game is good unless he is playing with a serial underbidder. It was just a standard partscore battle until South buried pard for competing.

[the_dude]

Thanks all for the feedback so far.

 

As I held the South cards, I am admittedly biased, but I am surprised no one has mentioned the #1 reason that I would have passed with the North hand (and not thought much about it). You hold 8 points and the opponents have made no move towards game - it would seem to me that (A) partner holds a good hand and will not know what to do over 3S, or (B) one of the opponents forgot to make a game try. If it's (A) (likely) then partner has strength and shortness in clubs he should be able to reopen.

 

I just have terrible results when I bid 8 counts freely twice. That being said I still think 4S was pushing it. My logic as South at the time was if partner needed a S or D finesse, it was on, and if he needed the H finesse it was off. 66% I never put his actual hand in the family of those he could hold.

 

RE: the 2H vs X bid, another tough choice, but since I was going to bid 3D over 3C anyway I figured I might as well get both suits in there.

 

Thanks again.

[JLOGIC]

3S is a totally normal bid. 3 small clubs and a spade fit and the AK of diamonds, the hand is quite good. 4S is really out of line. 9xxx of trumps is not a good holding FYI.

[ggwhiz]

The key to me is that pard has shown at least 9 cards in the pointed suits and the stiff heart is no surprise given my stiff club. The south hand has dropped in value but if the ♥QJ were somewhere else.....

[gszes]

aside from the fact I dislike the (1d lead director) overcall the 3s bid

which shows extra values (since p x was only forcing to the 2 level)

is the one bid that sticks out the most. S was just a poor victim and

I am not convinced I would bid 2h even though the hearts are pretty

darn good at IMPS it is more important to get to game and 2h has

too great a chance of losing the spade suit while x will rarely lose

the heart suit if that is the right suit for game.

[fromageGB]

X may be forcing to only the 2 level in a novice game, but think about what has happened here. I am West, opening 1♣. They bid diamonds, and partner supports my clubs. They then double, looking to see if they have a major fit before they subside back into diamonds. If they find a major fit at the 2 level they then have room to make a game try. Am I going to give them all this freedom? Of course not. If they do find a major fit I will have to continue to 3♣ anyway, as a make or as a sacrifice, so I am logically going to bid 3♣ immediately over the X. On most hands, 3♣ is automatic.

 

South should realise that. Double is therefore HIGHLY ENCOURAGING North to bid a major at the 3 level. North is bidding 3♠ quite happily. He may be a bit light in values - but South knows his style and has made allowance for that - but he has 4 card spade support, a singleton, excellent diamonds ... Nothing wrong at all, a normal bid. He has been invited to bid 3♠ with a fit, and it is a good one.

 

As South, do I want to be in a spade game if partner has 4 poor cards, especially given his known overcalling style? No way !! Do I want to be in a heart game if partner has heart support? Yes, at IMPS I do. Perhaps I think a little more before my first bid, and decide to bid 2♥. With no heart fit, I am happy for a 3♦ partial.