CSGibson Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 [hv=pc=n&s=sajt6hdk84cakq842&n=sq952hqj7daj973c9&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=ppp1cp1sp3h(heart%20shortness%2C%20spade%20support)p4sp6sppp]266|200[/hv] So we got to a good spot, but it didn't feel very sciency. Any suggestions as to improvements to this auction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Maybe north should offer a cuebid below game, but admittedly ♥QJx doesn't look so hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Difficult to give you much help with my auction as it goes 1♣-1♦-1♠-3♠-4♣-4♦-5♥(XCB)-5N-6♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 1c=1s3h=4d5h=5nt6s3h=shortness, big hand5h=exclusion5nt=1-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffford76 Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Out of curiosity, what would 4♥ instead of 3♥ have been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted July 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Out of curiosity, what would 4♥ instead of 3♥ have been? also a splinter (not void showing) - but clearly game forcing, as opposed to this one which allowed responder to parse their hand into three categories: accepting game try but not slam suitable (4♠), not accepting game try (3♠), and accepting game try and slam suitable (cue bid). In my mind, 4♥ is a middle-splinter, game forcing, but unwilling to go further opposite only mild encouragement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 random comment: i don't like mini splinters from opening hands - any random bulgar knows to underlead his diamond ace on auctions like these. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Maybe north should offer a cuebid below game, but admittedly ♥QJx doesn't look so hot.I'm not sure North would cuebid with this auction either: p - 1C1S - 4C! ( 4s/6c .. the CWNN... "convention with no name " ) ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 After 1C-1S-3H, surely North can do something other than leap to 4S, which sounds more like a flat 6-count. What is the difference between 3S, 3NT, and an immediate 4D cue? Without a serious/nonserious agreement, I would guess 3S was marking time and 4D was a hand that was happy about hearing the 3H bid. But no way am I leaping to 4S and trying to end the auction with a 7-loser hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I would go with the suggested (earlier) jump to 4♣, showing solid clubs, great four card fit. Over that, East would certainly cooperate with a 4♦ cue-bid, and the auction takes a life of its own, I don't believe it would be possible to stop short of 6♠ after the cue-bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted July 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 After 1C-1S-3H, surely North can do something other than leap to 4S, which sounds more like a flat 6-count. What is the difference between 3S, 3NT, and an immediate 4D cue? Without a serious/nonserious agreement, I would guess 3S was marking time and 4D was a hand that was happy about hearing the 3H bid. But no way am I leaping to 4S and trying to end the auction with a 7-loser hand. 3♠ is non-forcing, an offer to play. 4♠ shows extras in context. This partnership does not play non-serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 3♠ is non-forcing, an offer to play. 4♠ shows extras in context. This partnership does not play non-serious. fwiw you might have bid 5h over 4s...same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 fwiw you might have bid 5h over 4s...same result.5♣ over 4♠ looks more logical, showing the most important feature of the hand. Then 5♦ from North allows South to ask about trump honours via 5NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 5♣ over 4♠ looks more logical, showing the most important feature of the hand. Then 5♦ from North allows South to ask about trump honours via 5NT. assume 5h would still be exclusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 also a splinter (not void showing) - but clearly game forcing, as opposed to this one which allowed responder to parse their hand into three categories: accepting game try but not slam suitable (4♠), not accepting game try (3♠), and accepting game try and slam suitable (cue bid). In my mind, 4♥ is a middle-splinter, game forcing, but unwilling to go further opposite only mild encouragement.If a cue bid means "slam suitable opposite a game-invitation", then I think you're stuck with the auction you had. If it means "slam suitable opposite a slam try", then North should have cue-bid. It's easy to get distracted by the ♥QJ, but the splinter tells you to look at your non-hearts, not your hearts. Qxxx xxx AJ9xx x isn't a bad hand, especially if partner is 4-6. Can't you use a non-serious 3NT to say "I'm not worth a slam-try opposite an invitation, but if you're making a slam try of your own I'm suitable"? I agree with Wank about invitational splinters - they're one of those ghastly conventions that people seem to play because it looks clever, but which actually just leak IMPs and matchpoints without ever gaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 To play both 3H and 4H as splinter is pretty bad. 4H as optinnal exclusion is just so much better. Here I think north hand can go foward Qxxx & AJxxx still working isnt that bad. So 4H--4NT (1keyc)5C--5H (Q but no extra)6S If I dont paln to show my void I prefer 4C to show my running clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shugart23 Posted July 20, 2013 Report Share Posted July 20, 2013 [hv=pc=n&s=sajt6hdk84cakq842&n=sq952hqj7daj973c9&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=ppp1cp1sp3h(heart%20shortness%2C%20spade%20support)p4sp6sppp]266|200[/hv] So we got to a good spot, but it didn't feel very sciency. Any suggestions as to improvements to this auction?Playing our version of Precision..I open 1C and partner jumps to 2NT showing 4 Spades and undisclosed 5+card Minor and at least 8HCP. I bid 3S, establishing Spades as trump suit and asking about her Honor holding in Spades. Partner bids 4C telling me she has one of the top three Spade Honors.. I bid 4D asking her total controls in her hand. Partner bids 4H saying 2 or less (an Ace, 2 kings, or worse than that). I bid 5D asking what round control she has of the Diamond suit and Partner bids 6D saying first round control and now I (have no choice but to) bid 6 Spades I know partner has 5+ card Diamond suit deduction. I know she has the Ace but not the Queen (otherwise she would have told me she has 1st and 3rd round control of Diamonds). I know we have an 8 card Spade fit missing either the King (since she has 2 or less controls and I know she has the Ace of Diamonds, she is missing the K of Spades) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 If 3♥ was not gf, either 3♥ or blasting slam after pd accepted game invitation is very odd. I don't like game invitation splinters for couple reasons. Imho splinters should be slam invitation, one of them representing stretched hands other one being legit splinter but both should be ok to play a reasonable game vs a minimum response. You will have more space to investigate when pd makes weaker splinter, instead of wasting your time by telling that you accept or deny game invitation. I assume S on this hand was planning to bid 4♠ anyway, had pd tried to settle in 3♠. Problem is it doesn't matter if pd has wasted ♥ values or not, south knows each time pd has ♦ A and out they have a reasonable shot at slam. Perhaps splinter was not the right tool to use on this hand with AJTx trumps +void and 6 card solid side suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Playing our version of Precision..I open 1C and partner jumps to 2NT showing 4 Spades and undisclosed 5+card Minor and at least 8HCP. I bid 3S, establishing Spades as trump suit and asking about her Honor holding in Spades. Partner bids 4C telling me she has one of the top three Spade Honors.. I bid 4D asking her total controls in her hand. Partner bids 4H saying 2 or less (an Ace, 2 kings, or worse than that). I bid 5D asking what round control she has of the Diamond suit and Partner bids 6D saying first round control and now I (have no choice but to) bid 6 Spades I know partner has 5+ card Diamond suit deduction. I know she has the Ace but not the Queen (otherwise she would have told me she has 1st and 3rd round control of Diamonds). I know we have an 8 card Spade fit missing either the King (since she has 2 or less controls and I know she has the Ace of Diamonds, she is missing the K of Spades) That auction leaves you badly in the dark. Partner's hand might have been Qxxx, Qx, Axxxxx, J in which case 6♦ just needs a non 4-0 diamond break and nothing horrible elsewhere which is way better than 6♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 No one willing to suggest a 4♣ rebid by opener? After 1♣ - 1♠4♣ - 4♦ things don't look too difficult to figure out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 No one willing to suggest a 4♣ rebid by opener? After 1♣ - 1♠4♣ - 4♦ things don't look too difficult to figure outChopped liver here... see post # 8 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 Chopped liver here... see post # 8 . sorry about that... On percoset right now (recovering from a hernia surgery on Friday) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shugart23 Posted July 21, 2013 Report Share Posted July 21, 2013 That auction leaves you badly in the dark. Partner's hand might have been Qxxx, Qx, Axxxxx, J in which case 6♦ just needs a non 4-0 diamond break and nothing horrible elsewhere which is way better than 6♠. Great point....6D is the more secure bid bid, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 No one willing to suggest a 4♣ rebid by opener? After 1♣ - 1♠4♣ - 4♦ things don't look too difficult to figure outWhat will you do if he bids 4♥ or 4♠? The quality of slam will often depend on whether he has ♦Q. For example, compare KQxxx Qxxx xx xx with KQxxx xxxx Qx xx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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