Hanoi5 Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 All red, Mp's, third hand opens 1♣ and you hold: ♠987x♥AQTx♦QJ♣KTx (Pa)-Pa-(1♣)-??? What do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 I assume my options are pass or X I x but have no issue with pass other than I wont act later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 I used to pass with these, but I've learned to Double. ♦QJ is great support, even if we'd end up in a 4-2 fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Play the double of 1♣ as showing a Polish club. Remove 1♦ to 1♥. This can be strong, but is consistent with a hand like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 I'd DBL and pass 1♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Play the double of 1♣ as showing a Polish club. Remove 1♦ to 1♥. This can be strong, but is consistent with a hand like this. Not sure what you mean with the remove part, if double is polish club don't you have to bid 1♦ with 4441/4351 11-17? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Not sure what you mean with the remove part, if double is polish club don't you have to bid 1♦ with 4441/4351 11-17? OK not quite the full Polish. I did play against a Polish pair recently who went the whole hog, so a 1M response showed 8+ and all weak hands (and some strong) bid 1♦. My preference is to respond naturally (at the 1 level at any rate - 2 level+ = Stayman and transfers), but doubler continues "Polish" after 1♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 I'd double and pass diamonds, I'm not as sophisticated as PhilKing :) If I understand you correctly, Phil, 1C-x-p-2D; p-2H is still strong right (well 2D denies a 4-card major so kind of a silly question)? Anything else to know about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 I'd double and pass diamonds, I'm not as sophisticated as PhilKing :) If I understand you correctly, Phil, 1C-x-p-2D; p-2H is still strong right (well 2D denies a 4-card major so kind of a silly question)? Anything else to know about this? 2♦ is a transfer to hearts. 10+ points 5+ hearts. It has to be kepts up to strength because we double a loose club with 4243 13 counts, for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 I had heard of a 'lebensohl' 1♦ before, I guess polish club continuations are ok, but I think the strong hand with clubs has to be changed to something else. I don't like transfers, I want opener to be on lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I had heard of a 'lebensohl' 1♦ before, I guess polish club continuations are ok, but I think the strong hand with clubs has to be changed to something else.Nowadays Lebensohl gets everywhere. As I was learning the game (way before I ever heard of Lebensohl) the method was called Herbert negative. It was part of my inspiration for using a "Lebensohl-like" 1NT response to a take-out double of 1♦♥♠ as a junior, trying to split ranges and shapes more effectively. Noone else liked it so I stopped developing the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 1nt as negative is nice if you don't have a natural 1nt overcall available . then the 15-17 bal can double and pass the negative . of course this means that you use the negative only with balancedish hands . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Phil's system is known as inverse phantom club :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 Play the double of 1♣ as showing a Polish club. Remove 1♦ to 1♥. This can be strong, but is consistent with a hand like this.What would be your upper limit for a 1♥ bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 What would be your upper limit for a 1♥ bid? 21, I guess. It's just like opening 1♥ playing 4-card majors, except more is known about responder's hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 21, I guess. It's just like opening 1♥ playing 4-card majors, except more is known about responder's hand.It's not that much like opening 1♥. When you bid 1♥-2♥ or 1♥-1NT, the player in fourth seat doesn't know that his partner has an opening hand, and he doesn't have a penalty double available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 It's not that much like opening 1♥. When you bid 1♥-2♥ or 1♥-1NT, the player in fourth seat doesn't know that his partner has an opening hand, and he doesn't have a penalty double available. I don't see how they can exploit this weakness in my system over 1♣ without just creating frequent problems for themselves. And just because the max is 21, responder is not moving with four points and three hearts without a useful feature on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I don't see how they can exploit this weakness in my system over 1♣ without just creating frequent problems for themselves.Responder passes with a balanced 11-count, then (noting his ♥K10xx), passes again over 1♥. Then he doubles the final contract. I know there's a risk that 1♥ will be passed out, but the upside probably justifies it. How prominently is this displayed on your convention card? This is the sort of thing that works better in practice than in theory, because unprepared opponents would probably reveal that they have values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 How prominently is this displayed on your convention card? This is the sort of thing that works better in practice than in theory, because unprepared opponents would probably reveal that they have values. The sequence 1♣-x is described. Specific seat 6 scenarios are not described - there isn't room for second round actions, surely. 1♥ is alerted. Equally, we could float a diamond against players that play pass then double as 10+ balanced and have it clearly marked on their card (which they should, since the pass is a common first round action). Strangely, we played the countermeasure you describe for a while (pass then double 10+ balanced), but have abandoned it. I doubt whether trapping again over 1♥ is percentage with 11 points, though, since the deck has to be split 5, 12, 12 to have much chance of a bigger fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 19, 2013 Report Share Posted July 19, 2013 I pass. I don't see a compelling reason to mis-describe my hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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