3rd seat preempt by opps

[MrAce]

[hv=pc=n&s=skqj875hkt85d875c&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp3c]133|200[/hv]

 

IMPS, tell me if you would treat it differently if it was MP.

 

thanks

 

I was told that i am crazy for bidding 3♠ with this, just curious if you all think it was that bad.

[gnasher]

I'd bid 3♠, but without much conviction. The most likely outcome is turning -110 in 3♣ into -100 in 4♠ (undoubled). I suppose that makes it clearer at matchpoints.

[the_clown]

3♠ not close for me

[billw55]

3♠ 100% at matchpoints and maybe 70% at IMPs. Two passes and a preempt is proof that high cards are fairly evenly distributed, which means partner has his share.

[Fluffy]

I would hate that partner has 10 points outside clubs and we miss game

[Codo]

obvious 3 ♠ to me too..

[Free]

Passing is crazier.

[dake50]

I have a 3D bid to show M+M. I try that.

Partner may jump to 4H with 4+H 10 points, OK.

If he says 3H, I try 3S to show S>>H(2>> means 2+cards greater length) and not GF.

I really expect C-void and 6-suit to play big.

[MickyB]

It's clear to bid IMO. As others have said, there's no reason to think 4S going off will be worse than defending 3C.

[Cyberyeti]

I was told that i am crazy for bidding 3♠ with this, just curious if you all think it was that bad.

 

I'm with the unanimity in bidding 3♠.

 

I can't remember who said "If you think everybody else is crazy, it's probably not them", I suggest this would apply to whoever told you that.

[mikeh]

The auction to this point tells us that we can, with reasonable safety, place partner with about 10 hcp, even if we allow rho a 'heavy' pre-empt, which makes sense if we assume he is short major(s) and sees little chance of game opposite his passed partner.

 

Then there are two reasons why our partner's passed hand status persuades us to bid 3♠.

 

The first is that we cannot realistically hope for him to balance. He may have the hcp to balance, but he rates to have the wrong shape and, in particular, to lack the club shortness that might spur him to double. He may also be too short in spades to double, yet be long enough to help us, given our holding.

 

The second is that he simply can't have the hand to get us way too high. At most, he can make a strong raise via 4♣ and he then has to respect our signoff.....if he doesn't then he has a freak and we'll be fine anyway: Axxx AQxx x xxxx anyone?

 

The one fly in the ointment on this second point is that LHO may raise clubs in some fashion, and deprive partner of his ability to get his enthusiasm of his chest via a cheap cuebid, but we can't cater to everything.

 

I think we bid at any form of the game, and only a walrus would pass. Playing mps makes it all the clearer to bid, as others have observed, but the idea of defending 3♣ opposite a random 9-10 count with, say, Jxx in clubs makes me ill.

[ggwhiz]

I have to bid 3♠ but know the downside (pard doubling something we can't beat or bidding something we can't make). It's only a quack and a filler away from a 1♠ bid in 1st chair.

 

We can win a partscore battle or a game if it's on and most of our losses won't get doubled and are small partscore swings.

[Galbrayek]

I have a 3D bid to show M+M. I try that.

Partner may jump to 4H with 4+H 10 points, OK.

If he says 3H, I try 3S to show S>>H(2>> means 2+cards greater length) and not GF.

I really expect C-void and 6-suit to play big.

it's sounds good,but what would you do if you have a good ♦suit?

[Galbrayek]

3♠ 100% at matchpoints and maybe 70% at IMPs. Two passes and a preempt is proof that high cards are fairly evenly distributed, which means partner has his share.

but it is likely to play 3NT ,if you bid 3♠

[the hog]

3S though I can certainly understand pass.

[billw55]

but it is likely to play 3NT ,if you bid 3♠

If partner bids 3NT, it is possible to bid over that, 4♥ or 4♠.

 

Anyway, you don't say your own choice, what will you bid over 3♣?

[CSGibson]

3♠, but not comfortable with it, obviously.

[Phil]

3♠. There's a lot of people in the western US that like to operate with 3rd seat 3m openings on 13 counts. I may be trading a small plus for a small minus, but I think the upside is worth it.

 

If this is a 70% action at IMPs, its a 1000% action at MPs w/w.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=skqj875hkt85d875c&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp3c]133|200|

IMPS, tell me if you would treat it differently if it was MP.

 

thanks

 

I was told that i am crazy for bidding 3♠ with this, just curious if you all think it was that bad.

[/hv]

BBO arguments, over the years, have modified my opinion on action over pre-empts. IMO RHO has a heavy pre-empt -- probably the best hand at the table -- hence

• At MPs, 3♠ = 10, Pass = 9. (Frequency of gain).
• At IMPS, Pass = 10, 3♠ = 8. (Let sleeping dogs lie. e.g. partner may later double opponent's club "sacrifice", expecting you to have a better hand).

It would also be an interesting problem if RHO opened 3♣ as dealer. In that context, some of us require a better hand to take action.

[JLOGIC]

double post

[JLOGIC]

It's clear to bid IMO. As others have said, there's no reason to think 4S going off will be worse than defending 3C.

 

Yes, this is obviously the key. If all of these things were true:

 

1) We will rarely beat 3C

2) Game will rarely make

3) They will rarely double us (passed hand opposite third seat white preempt and we have a good suit)

4) Partner will always bid game (given that he is marked with HCP)

5) Partner will almost never balance (given our club void)

 

We should still bid. Personally I think #2 is definitely the farthest from the truth of all 5 things which makes bidding huge upside. This is not going to be a turning a small plus into a small minus hand that often, it will usually be turning a small minus into a different small minus with the upside of turning a small minus into a big plus.

[jogs]

3S though I can certainly understand pass.

 

It's hands like this which demonstrates that advancer should

give interventor lots of leeway.