Moscito in third seat

[Flame]

I began this topic, calling it third seat systems, but while writing i thought it fits moscito best.

What do you think of of using the non 1♣ opening in moscito to show 0-14 hcp in third seat ?

[Cowology]

I think that's a pretty broad range lol.

[Flame]

I think that's a pretty broad range lol.

The question is who this range hurt more.

If you know ur side doesnt have a game, its pretty easy for you to bid, you just follow the law of total tricks in your partsocre combat. for your opponents it would be alot harder since they should not only find their suit but also find wather they have a game or a slam.

[Cowology]

It's a bit more aggresive then I would be willing to go. I would want it to show at least 1 defensive trick, or something along those lines. You could succede in pushing aggresive ops into aggresive games which could be either really good or really bad for you. I prefer to have at least some definition as to the quality of the hand. I wouldn't object to a 3-12 HCP range in theory, but then you encounter the problem of placing incredible pressure on your 1C open. Not as bad in Moscito as in some other Big C systems, but still probably more trouble then it's worth.

 

You're welcome to try it as my op though and if you have frequent success I'll just boot you and report you for abuse and cheating :)

[the hog]

I think this is a poor idea and see no logic in it. Just because partner has passed does not mean

1) It is not our hand

2) We don't have a game

 

Incidentally few play Moscito in third suit - it usually reverts to Standard or some 4 card M system with 1C being 17+.

[helene_t]

I agree with Ron. You can preempt in third seat with 0-10 points or something. 1-level openings should be constructive, and therefore 1♣ shows more in 3rd seat than it would in 1st/2nd seat. Recall that transfer openings have limited preemptive effect. You may as well pass with a weak hand if you can't preempt.

[Flame]

Yes i didnt even think of the transfer openings when i opened this thread.

Yes we could have a game but i think we can still handle it, First with moscito kind of agressive opening in first seat game is rare, and if needed you could lower the range even more to 0-13, game would be with a good fit or with very strange hand and it could be handle by cue bidding or some other way.

I didnt post this as a new system i think about, just as an idea which crossed my mind while reading the post about psyching 1nt.

Sure such a system will never be 100% as good as accurate as normal but if u have maby 70-80% it might be good enough.

[hrothgar]

Hey Y'all

 

Here are a few thoughts. First and foremost, it important to consider the set of hands that Pass in first/second seat playing MOSCITO. Partner could very easily hold up to 11 HCP with either a balanced or a 3 suited hand pattern. If you are "broke" in third seat, it makes it quite likely that partner has some 10 count that he couldn't open.

 

Equally significant, consider the set of hands that partner denies. Partner isn't going to hold a shapely hand unless he is absolutely broke.

 

The combination of these factors suggests adopting a more conservative bidding style in 3rd/4th seat. A constructive opening style allows responder to make effective use of bidding space. If an opening bid showed 0-16 HCP, responder could never advance with safety. Equally significant, a weak opening style is going to encourgae the opponents to look for opportunities to penalize us.

 

For example, I'd consider it suicidal to play a weak NT opening in 3rd/4th seat. If the opps drag out the red card, responder won't be able to contribute towards a scramble.

[Flame]

This is very intesting, Richard you are saying that even if we knew there is no game it would still be bad because it would be too dangerous and easy for the opponents to double. If that is true or even partly true then oviously this has no use, you pay in less accurate and bad constructive to get something not to get double.