Forcing?

[0 fl]

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1cp1dp2n]133|100[/hv]

 

I've always played it as non-forcing, but someone suggested to me that it's not.

[aguahombre]

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1cp1dp2n]133|100[/hv]

 

I've always played it as non-forcing, but someone suggested to me that it's not.

Don't think of it like that at all. The 2NT rebid was too strong to open 1NT, and not strong enough to open 2NT. For most people that means 18-19 HCP. If the responding hand had a response, that means he will want to be in game. If he didn't really have one, he passes.

[Stephen Tu]

Definitely non-forcing playing a modern natural system with a 15-17 1nt opener and 20-21 2nt opener, where this sequence shows 18-19, and responder might have stretched a bit to respond on a 4-5 count, so 2nt might well be the limit and may not even make. Though stretching to a bid a diamond instead of stretching to bid a major is going to be less common.

 

Someone playing it as forcing is perhaps from a stone-age era when 1nt opener was 16-18, this rebid was played as 19-20 or 19-21. Combined with a requirement for responder to have 6+ hcp, then this sequence could logically be played as forcing.

[0 fl]

Hmmm, I usually play a 2nt rebid as about 16-18. In which case you only pass with a minimum.

[Stephen Tu]

Hmmm, I usually play a 2nt rebid as about 16-18. In which case you only pass with a minimum.

 

This is an error, because you can't have that range logically. If you had 16-17 balanced, you were supposed to have opened 1nt (if playing 15-17 1nt), not 1c. This has a large advantage of you declaring 1nt instead of 2nt when partner is minimum. If you are unbalanced with that approximate point range, after 1c-1d, you are supposed to bid a major, raise diamonds, or rebid 3 clubs, depending on your shape.

[blackshoe]

The way I learned it, 2NT is not forcing, but if responder bids on, the auction becomes forcing to game (or possibly 4m). That's why the Wolff Signoff was invented.

[aguahombre]

To clarify:

 

When I teach that you shouldn't think of the 2NT rebid in terms of forcing or non forcing there are two issues.

 

1) It is a bid restricted very narrowly as to size (18-19) and shape (balanced). The person who makes the bid should not lie about that size and shape.

 

2) Responder is in charge at that point and does whatever he/she wants to do.

 

We choose to continue to game any time we did not cheat on our initial response. Others don't want to be in game with 18 or 19 opposite six; I think they are wrong, but that is not relevant.

 

I expect partner to move on to game almost all the time, but I don't have license to be cute with a heavy or offshape 2NT rebid assured I will get another chance to correct the misbid.

[wank]

judging by what you're doing with 16-18 it sounds like you've got the wrong idea about the so-called no trump [balanced hand] ladder. assuming you're playing standardish methods it looks like this:

 

12-14 open a suit and rebid NTs at minimum level

15-17 open 1NT

18-19 open a suit and jump rebid in NTs. if it's 2NT, it's forcing if responder really had enough to bid originally, i.e. 6+. in the real world, partner's response might be a bit of a joke, in which case he can pass now.

20-22(21) open 2NT

(22)23-24 open 2C and rebid in NTs at minimum level

25+ open 2C and jump in NTs

 

of course if you open a suit and partner responds in another suit you hold, you have to raise (beit a simple raise or jump raise, etc) rather than rebidding NTs

[P_Marlowe]

Standard: Openers 2NT jump rebid is nonforcing.

 

But you wont loose a lot, if you agree to play is as forcing.

 

In a strong NT system, the jump rebid showes 18-19, partner showed 6+, even assuming responder does

strech, the partnership will have at least a 23+ combined strength, 23/24 if responder is dead min.

If you played 2NT as forcing, you would sometimes reach game (presumably 3NT) with 23/24HCP, not nice,

but not the end of the world, and when it makes, it may be really nice.

 

Since the min combined strength is below 25, the jump rebid is played as NF, but it will be rare, that

the auction dies in 2NT.

 

A sequence that is relevant would be

 

1C - 1H

2NT - ...

 

If openr has 4 card support and is 18-19 bal., it would be great, if opener would be able to tell partner

about his shape, his strength and about the 4 card support.

 

Playing 2NT as forcing, would alloow this.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe