Phil Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Matchpoints, None vul AJ xx AKQJxxx xx (1♥) - 3♥ - (pass) - 3♠(pass) - ? Do you agree with 3♥? What is 3♠? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 4♦. Partner doesn't have the stopper but is offering spades as a possibility. I don't like'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 4♦. Partner doesn't have the stopper but is offering spades as a possibility. I don't like'em. 4♠. Partner doesn't have the stopper but is offering spades as a possibility. I do like'em. For example: KQxxxx xx xx KQx. Introducing a worse spade than that into this kind of auction would be unlikely and we could still survive even so. If his side suits are worse maybe 4♦ also doesn't make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 4♠. Partner doesn't have the stopper but is offering spades as a possibility. I do like'em. For example: KQxxxx xx xx KQx. Introducing a worse spade than that into this kind of auction would be unlikely and we could still survive even so. If his side suits are worse maybe 4♦ also doesn't make.There are several issues here: 1) Why should 3♥ be confined to solid minors? With a solid major and a heart stopper in partner's hand there may well be as many tricks in notrumps than in the major and this number may be nine. 2) What is partner's default bid lacking a heart stopper without a good suit? What the cheapest suit bid (3♠) shows seems to me a matter of agreement. I am not sure how to interpret it, Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Without discussion the standard here is to play 3x as a solid minor so let's assume that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I don't like having solid majors in the 3H range, so I think 3S=spades, since 3S="can you bid 3N with a half stopper" seems not nearly as useful. So I'd bid 4S. We can always get out at 5m later if I'm wrong and partner scrambles. But this is a good discussion to have with partner -- there are a few issues involved here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 4♠ looks like an awful contract even when partner has the nuts ♠KQ ♣A we haven't yet made it. I would bid 4♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I have never discussed this with anyone but holding two hearts (and not hearing them showing support) and two clubs I'm concerned about four quick losers or even dummy being tapped in hearts and partner losing communications in diamonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 4D. Partner has 5S. I do not think 4S will be a good contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 What is 3♠? Without discussion the standard here is to play 3x as a solid minor so let's assume that. Then why are you asking the question ? Am i missing something ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Matchpoints, None vul ♠ A J ♥ x x ♦ A K Q J x x x ♣ x x(1♥) - 3♥ - (pass) - 3♠(pass) - ?Do you agree with 3♥? What is 3♠? IMOAgree with 3♥ asking for a ♥ stopper in the first instance, with interest in 3N or better things (usually a strong hand with a near solid suit).Partner's 3♠ = Negative no ♥ stop and a poor hand. (3N would have shown a ♥ stop. Other bids deny a ♥ stop but show values).Now 4♦ = Natural, nothing to spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Then why are you asking the question ? Am i missing something ? Because Rainer implied that 3♥ could contain any solid suit and not just minors. If thats the case, 3♠ might just mean pass/correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Because Rainer implied that 3♥ could contain any solid suit and not just minors. If thats the case, 3♠ might just mean pass/correct. Yea i know but you said that w/o agreement it should be solid minor, if so ( you said it ) then 3♠ can be only natural, no ? You asked what 3♠ means, and all i am saying is what it means depends on strictly what 3♥ was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Yea i know but you said that w/o agreement it should be solid minor, if so ( you said it ) then 3♠ can be only natural, no ?No, while that is the default meaning, it is also logical to bid this with half a stopper should you have the agreement to do so. Over 3♠ I will bid 4♦; there is nothing stopping partner from repeating spades now if they feel so inclined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 No, while that is the default meaning, it is also logical to bid this with half a stopper should you have the agreement to do so. Over 3♠ I will bid 4♦; there is nothing stopping partner from repeating spades now if they feel so inclined. Perhaps. In fact it may be a better idea since 3♥ bidder is much more interested in how good/bad we will do in 3NT, rather than our 5-6 card spades. Gotcha ! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 I made a multi-meaning bid. Partner made the cheapest possible bid. Ergo: may be a punt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 I can tell you this partner is pretty experienced, and very much down-the-middle. However, I do not think he gets a lot of the modern concepts, as you can surmise in some of the other posts. Part of winning bridge is to be able to correctly interpret what calls mean through your partner's eyes, rather that what they should be. I doubt 3♠ here means anything but spades. Unfortunately we do not have a good landing place since partner has T9xxxx of spades and not much more. He did have ♥Qxx, but RHO is definitely good enough to lead a club from her AKxx instead of leading a low heart from AKxxx. The main question to me assuming 3♠ is natural, should it be forcing? I thought it was and I raised to 4♠. RHO did hammer this and it was -500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted June 29, 2013 Report Share Posted June 29, 2013 What is best depend on if you may have a half stopper for 3H, if you do I think 3S should denies spades while 4c should show 5S(Forcing),I dont know anybody who play this way but I think its better because it allow to get to good 3nt at the cost of 3S being forcing. if not than I think 3S should be NF because advancer can bid 4H as COG instead (not really important to have 4H has splinter here. Im also wondering if you play 4m who do you prefer to play the hand ? I think i prefer to disclose avdancer rather than overcaller but im not sure (easier for defense to switch when you see the stiff on dummy) But with no discussion I would assume that 3S is NF and 4H is COG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 4♥ PAG. Partner's 3♠ shows, of all things, spades and a reasonable hand, so it's time to wheel out the dreaded pick a game cue bid. 4♥ by partner would have shown a slam try and a control - it's not pick a game, since he by-passed 3♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 4♥ PAG. Partner's 3♠ shows, of all things, spades and a reasonable hand, so it's time to wheel out the dreaded pick a game cue bid. 4♥ by partner would have shown a slam try and a control - it's not pick a game, since he by-passed 3♠. If pd is showing spades and a reasonable hand, why are we still asking him to choose ? Don't we have a decent support ? With nothing else in other suits ? And pd already knows we have a solid minor. Even if we are confident that 4♥ will be recieved by pd as COG, it would be more suitable with hands like J xx AKQJxxx Axx or xx xx AKQJxxx Ax imo. If he is bidding 3♠ with only 5, is it too much to expect him to hold KQxxx or even KQTxx ? Perhaps i am thinking way too simple but if 3♠ showing spades and a reasonable hand, i am bidding 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted June 30, 2013 Report Share Posted June 30, 2013 If pd is showing spades and a reasonable hand, why are we still asking him to choose ? Don't we have a decent support ? With nothing else in other suits ? And pd already knows we have a solid minor. Even if we are confident that 4♥ will be recieved by pd as COG, it would be more suitable with hands like J xx AKQJxxx Axx or xx xx AKQJxxx Ax imo. If he is bidding 3♠ with only 5, is it too much to expect him to hold KQxxx or even KQTxx ? Perhaps i am thinking way too simple but if 3♠ showing spades and a reasonable hand, i am bidding 4♠. Raising to Four Spades is hard to fault, but if pard has KQxxx and the club ace, I prefer to be in Five Diamonds. I don't think I would bid Four Hearts on your example hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 But with no discussion I would assume that 3S is NF and 4H is COG.3♠ as non-forcing makes little sense to me. If we have a bunch of cheese just advance 4♣ to play in partner's minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 I prefer that 3S is forcing and a punt, but if 3S has to show spades than I agree that 3S has to show some points since with cheese its impossible that spades will play better than 4m, but if you want to force to game with 5S good S or 6 bad I can bid 4H , so the only purpose i see for 3S forcing are half a stoppers hands and hands with 6S good spades (where partner can raise with xx) and slammish hands, but IMO there is going a lot more of hands with 5or6 spades and so-so values where 3S might be the best contract, I dont think its close at all. This is of course if you bid 3H in a modern way like with a solid 7 carder + side king. With Axxxxx and a side A/K, It look pretty nice to me to be able to play 3S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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