You bid vulnerable so I double...

[Hanoi5]

[hv=pc=n&w=sj82hq63dkjt3cj73&e=sht8d852cakqt8652&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1sp?5c5sdppp]266|200[/hv]

 

Let's say North supports spades showing a good hand (FG+)Is there any reason to double with West's hand?

[MrAce]

With N showing a GF+ hand and support, West has no reason to double 7♠ let alone 5.

 

EDIT: Unless DBL specifically shows a hand that has 0-1 tricks in defense + ♣ support.

[the hog]

"Is there any reason to double with West's hand? "

No reason whatsoever.

[inquiry]

To disagree with the hog, I could imagine a double only possible reason is a striped tail ape double.

[the hog]

To disagree with the hog, I could imagine a double only possible reason is a striped tail ape double.

 

 

Ok Ben. I did not think of this possibility and "yes" I agree with you. However I think it is most unlikely that the op had this thought in mind.

[EricK]

To disagree with the hog, I could imagine a double only possible reason is a striped tail ape double.

Has West got any reason to make a stripe-tailed ape double?

[uhhlv]

A striped tail ape double might work here. But west has no indication that NS bid slam or that slam is even possible. The diamond king seems to be a trick and maybe the queen of hearts or the jack of diamond.

And west doesn t know, that east has absolutly no Defense trick. If east had the jack of hearts and/or the diamond figures are onside, slam is not possible most of the time.

[the hog]

Has West got any reason to make a stripe-tailed ape double?

 

 

No. What Ben is saying that a x is absurd except for the remote possibility that......

[PhilKing]

Has West got any reason to make a stripe-tailed ape double?

 

Yes - but only if he IS a stripe-tailed ape (which the facts seem to support).

[Hanoi5]

Would it be different if North had bid 4♠ and then 5♠ over 5♣?

[ArtK78]

I don't understand even considering a double on the West cards. To me, even having the thought cross my mind is a misbid.

 

If East doubled 5♠ I would sit for it (I am not suggesting that East should double 5♠ - far from it).

[PhilKing]

.

[PhilKing]

Would it be different if North had bid 4♠ and then 5♠ over 5♣?

 

Anyone who thinks it might has basically misinterpretted something written in the 70s by Kantar or whoever. Virtually noone plays the -650/750 method of "always forcing at red anymore" - I'd go so far as to say it is not bridge. Bidding 5♣ is a potentially a punt at any colours, and partner then passed it, showing a hand that does not think we can make slam.

[mikl_plkcc]

Bidding double is horrible as the overcall strongly suggests ♠ void.

 

I would show my 3-card support instead, hoping they dare not double us.

[inquiry]

Has West got any reason to make a stripe-tailed ape double?

 

 

No, but he might think he has.

[gszes]

this auction has been very informative the opps opened and

forced to game in spades. That means you p already has a

strong idea of your maximum when they chose to bid 5c

at unfavorable. You have zero clue what p hand looks like

so you have no logical basis to make any further decisions

with this particular hand.If by chance you had the 2 red suit

aces instead of this collection of garbage you could bid 6c

note that i still would not x 5s.

 

This collection however merely increases the probability we

have zero club tricks and our only hope is diamond trick(s).

I wholeheartedly agree with the opinion that we should not

x 7s much less consider x of 5s. The strip tailed ape x has a

fall back position and we have no clue if such a situation

exists in this hand thus making that bid immediately obsolete.

[TylerE]

5♣ is a dumb bid. About all it will accomplish is talking opponents into bidding slam when it's right.

[ArtK78]

5♣ is a dumb bid. About all it will accomplish is talking opponents into bidding slam when it's right.

I guess there are a lot of dummies out there. I would bid 5♣ on the East hand. And I am sure that many others would as well.

[EricK]

No, but he might think he has.

He might think he has a reason to make a penalty double too!

[TylerE]

I guess there are a lot of dummies out there. I would bid 5♣ on the East hand. And I am sure that many others would as well.

 

Why? Do you expect -500 or -800 to score well on a board where the par is likely -450 or -480?

[inquiry]

He might think he has a reason to make a penalty double too!

 

Not with that hand.

[ArtK78]

Why? Do you expect -500 or -800 to score well on a board where the par is likely -450 or -480?

It is pretty pessimistic to assume that all of your red cards are losers. And when I hold 8 solid clubs I like partner to know about them.

 

This is aside from the fact that a 5♣ call makes it quite a bit more difficult for the opps to find their cold slam.

 

And it is not always easy for the opps to double you when they have no trump tricks.

 

Last, but certainly not least, it is my experience that for every time I go for 500 or more when I make this bid there are an equal number of times that I score +750 or +950 when partner turns up with a surprisingly fitting hand (sometimes opposite a making game the other way).

[rmnka447]

5♣ is a dumb bid. About all it will accomplish is talking opponents into bidding slam when it's right.

Not exactly. If you are going to bid ♣, then 5 ♣ is the call to make. A lesser ♣ bid gives the opponent's some room to explore game vs. slam. By bidding 5 ♣, you may occasionally goad the opponents into slam. But just as likely if not more often, there may be enough uncertainty that neither opponent can bid a perfectly makeable slam.

 

If partner holds a little more, bidding 5 ♣ puts the opponents in the position of having to make a decision about competing to 5 ♠ or doubling.

 

In any case, the double of 5 ♠ should never be made.

[TylerE]

Listen to the auction! Unless one of the opps is psyching, partner doesn't have whatever hand y'all seem to be playing him for. The top end of his range is something like KKJ, and opponents know how to play all the suits after you gave them the roadmap.

[Phil]

Listen to the auction! Unless one of the opps is psyching, partner doesn't have whatever hand y'all seem to be playing him for. The top end of his range is something like KKJ, and opponents know how to play all the suits after you gave them the roadmap.

 

I'm lisnin' but ayam not hearin' nuttin'!

 

I see my neighbuh makes a forcin' raise with sum newfangled contrapshun instead of forcin' de biddin' by jumpin'.

 

I see a bunch uh black cads of all de sem suit. Daddy told me to smack em' good by biddin' a lot of dem' clubs. Make it hahduh to find der slam.